Difference between revisions of "Wikibooks:Reading room/General"

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Welcome to the '''General reading room'''. On this page, Wikibookians are free to talk about the Wikibooks project in general. For proposals for improving Wikibooks, see the [[../Proposals/]] reading room.
 
Welcome to the '''General reading room'''. On this page, Wikibookians are free to talk about the Wikibooks project in general. For proposals for improving Wikibooks, see the [[../Proposals/]] reading room.
 
{{clear}}
 
{{clear}}
   
== Producing refereed academic papers on Wikibooks ==
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== Formatting on thousands of pages will break in 2017 ==
 
For some time I have had the idea of using the internet to produce academic papers in the public domain. Wikibooks might be the place to do this. The idea is that an author submits a new draft paper. People can jump in to make additions and possibly add their names as co-authors. People can jump in to edit and add their names as editors. When the paper has sufficient content it can be frozen for refereeing. Suitably qualified referees can be invited (or maybe just drop in) to determine if the paper is suitable for publication. If it is suitable it can be sent to Wikisource and linked (if appropriate) to articles in Wikipedia. Wikibooks academic papers would need a special format.
 
 
The advantages of this system is that the papers would be created and remain in the public domain. Publication might also be faster than through the established printed journals. Academics like myself want the widest possible distribution of their work but this gets blocked because the publishers of academic journals normally take the copyright of the papers away from the authors.
 
 
I am new to Wikibooks and Wiki space in general, so I apologize if I'm way off track with this. It is just an idea, hopefully it can gain substance if other people are interested. [[User:Logicalgregory|Logicalgregory]] ([[User talk:Logicalgregory|talk]]) 07:15, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
   
Thanks for all the comments. It seems that wikibooks is not the place for this idea. However, I will continue the thread for a moment longer, if only for the benefit of others who are lost in wikispace. At wikia I found a page that has been set up to do almost exactly what I proposed. It seems to have been in existence for some six years and, although all the infrastructure is there, there is virtually no content. It seems that an "academic publishing" page is just too general to attract participants. It needs to be more focused on a specific area of study. Also, I think it needs a strong group to start it off. I do not think it can be started by just one person with the expectation that others will just drop in (it will end up as dead space). I might pursue the idea further at wikiversity if I can put a group together.[[User:Logicalgregory|Logicalgregory]] ([[User talk:Logicalgregory|talk]]) 09:12, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
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I wanted to touch base informally about a technical project that will affect your wiki: [[w:HTML Tidy]] is a tool that silently fixes some typos in HTML and some wikitext code after a page has been saved. Tidy is being removed as part of a multi-year plan to update the parsers and improve accessibility.
   
:What you are describing sounds more like [http://academia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Wikia]. We have a [[WB:OR|policy]] against original research here on Wikibooks. [[User:Recent Runes|Recent Runes]] ([[User talk:Recent Runes|talk]]) 09:03, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
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For example, <code><nowiki></br></nowiki></code> is an invalid HTML code (it should be <code><nowiki><br></nowiki></code> instead). This currently displays as if it were correct, but that will not be the case when Tidy is removed. You can see the pages affected by this particular error by searching for <code><nowiki>insource:/\<\/br\>/</nowiki></code> in the regular search box. I've recently cleaned up this error in all the templates except for [[Template:Cite web/doc]], which has a problem with the spam blacklist, but there are about 450 pages in the mainspace that still need to be fixed. And that's only one of the errors.
::Please, I beg of you, let's not advertise for Wikia, as that is a conflict of interest with the Wikimedia Foundation board. As for the "[[WB:OR|policy]] against original research" here, I personally think that is something that ought to be reconsidered by the community. Having now carefully read that policy, I am wondering if [[World_War_II/Strategic_Bombing_in_Europe|this recent output]] is actually in violation of Wikibooks policy? -- [[User:Thekohser|Thekohser]] ([[User talk:Thekohser|talk]]) 19:01, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Oh, don't worry about "advertising" on this level. It is traditional to suggest to people, before nuking their silly contributions, to point out other places that will take them, "this is better for Wikia" is quite a bit nicer than "get that crap out of here!" We could also point out, for example, [http://mywikibiz.com MyWikiBiz]. Just don't ''you'' point it out, okay! More to the point, though, is that Wikiversity is a great place for original research, it is explicitly allowed, just don't try to present it as a scientific consensus, for example, if it isn't. But you can put up a page on your Favorite Crackpot Theory, note that it's not accepted, and then pretty much say what you want as long as it isn't illegal or fattening. At least that's the theory, the execution of the theory gets a bit ragged sometimes, but we are working on that.
 
   
:::As to your brilliant paper, while one might quibble with some words at the end, one might also allow an author some flexibility, especially if the conclusions reached are obvious, and Wikibooks policy on Original Research seems far more flexible than that of Wikipedia. In the end -- in both places! -- the real standard is consensus, there is no way around that unless the Foundation wants to step in, i.e., no way, so my advice: remember to be nice! Now, if I could just take my own advice..... --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 19:29, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
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More information, and a list of the major changes, is available at [[:mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy]]. In December, there will be a tool that you can use to visually check previews on pages that you're concerned about (it'll probably be available in Special:Preferences, but turned off by default). In the meantime, there is a list of known errors at [[:mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy]] that you may want to review and check your wiki for.
:[[v:|Wikiversity]] is a good place for this, which is still within the Wikimedia projects. --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;">[[User:Darklama|<font color="midnightblue">dark</font>]][[User_talk:Darklama|<font color="green">lama</font>]]</span> 14:05, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
::Yes. My opinion is that it is possible that Wikiversity could establish a peer review process, and that it could become, effectively, a publisher of peer-reviewed papers. There are quite a few obstacles to overcome, though. I don't expect to see this soon. However, papers can be written there, just as students and teachers may present, in classes, original research. An exciting idea is the collaborative writing of papers that might be submitted for publication elsewhere, under normal peer review. I've even set up a lab resource at [[Wikiversity:Cold fusion/Lab|Cold fusion/Lab]], something that would be completely inappropriate on Wikipedia or here. I work extensively on Wikiversity because of the great academic freedom that is the ideal there. It's largely realized, and there have only been problems arising from WMF critics using Wikiversity to criticize WMF projects, and then individuals criticized, often politically powerful within the WMF community, and their friends, also came to oppose, sometimes also in disruptive ways. The use (for "Wiki studies") is theoretically possible, but will require the establishment of ethical standards, and I wanted Thekohser to be unblocked there precisely so that he could support the development of those standards, from the critic side, and I assume that there will be others who will participate from the "defense." If, absent such standards, he abuses the relative freedom of Wikiversity to prematurely criticize, I will act to prevent it. But I don't expect it to be a problem. He's been very cooperative. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 18:11, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
   
:: Dear Logicalgregory,
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Most of the information about projects like this is delivered via [[:m:Tech/News]]. However, nobody at this wiki is subscribed to that weekly newsletter. If you aren't reliably getting this information via another wiki or mailing list, then you may want to subscribe and start watching for announcements like this. Also, if you work at any other project, please share this information. If you have questions or information to share with the devs about this project, please feel free to {{tl|ping}} me. [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Whatamidoing (WMF)|contribs]]) 18:56, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
:: That sounds like an excellent idea. However, as Darklama and Recent Runes pointed out, other wiki exist that would be an even better place for it than Wikibooks.
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:{{done}} I've treated [[Template:Cite web/doc]]. Moreover, my bot could easily correct the 450 pages, however I think that the best would be to treat the maximum number of errors at each edition. [[User:JackPotte|JackPotte]] ([[User talk:JackPotte|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/JackPotte|contribs]]) 19:39, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
:: If you are thinking about publishing some particular paper, perhaps it would be even better to post an outline on a wiki dedicated to whatever particular field you are interested in. A few such narrowly-focused wiki are:
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::Thank [[User:JackPotte|you]]. You might have a look at [[w:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Check Wikipedia#Line break tags]] (plus Bgwhite's user talk page). The tech-savvy gnomes at enwiki have been thinking about this for the last week, and I think they already had several tools and scripts that address these issues. Perhaps some of those would save you some coding time. [[User:Whatamidoing (WMF)|Whatamidoing (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Whatamidoing (WMF)|contribs]]) 04:50, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
::* [http://www.scienceofspectroscopy.info/ Science of Spectroscopy wiki]
 
::* [http://openwetware.org/ OpenWetWare wiki: biology]
 
::* [http://renewableenergy.wikia.com/wiki/Renewable_Energy_Design Renewable Energy Design wikia]
 
::* [http://www.sklogwiki.org/ SklogWiki dedicated to thermodynamics and statistical mechanics]
 
::* [http://wiki.biomine.skelleftea.se/wiki/ BioMineWiki: biology and hydrometallurgy]
 
::* [http://usefulchem.wikispaces.com/ UsefulChem Project wiki]
 
::* [http://prettyscience.wikia.com/ Pretty Science Wikia]
 
:: --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] ([[User talk:DavidCary|talk]]) 19:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 
   
As someone who recently repurposed a small portion of his undergraduate honors thesis [[World_War_II/Strategic_Bombing_in_Europe|here on Wikibooks]] (perhaps unwittingly in violation of policy!), I would like to say something. I can attest that there were at least 100 honors papers coming out of Emory University every year in the late 1980's, and one would estimate with near certainty that easily half of them never reached a "digital age" reformatting. It seems an utter waste of talent and labor to '''''not''''' reach out to people with honors research "collecting dust", and ask them (plead with them!) to consider scanning the work for OCR, then releasing it under a free license to share with the rest of the world. Multiply my experience at Emory by at least 200 (or 400, or 800!), to cover the many outstanding universities worldwide that have featured honors papers, etc. We're talking about a great deal of content and information that really should be gathered up and made digital. If not on Wikibooks, why? And where? -- [[User:Thekohser|Thekohser]] ([[User talk:Thekohser|talk]]) 19:08, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
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== Creative Commons 4.0 ==
:Not peer-reviewed, but this material would presumably be fine for Wikiversity, no question, and some of it might be okay here as well. It's likely to be of better quality than the average. Great idea, Thekohser. The problem with great ideas is, frequently, too many Chiefs with great ideas and not enough Indians. I'd suggest this as a project on Wikiversity, to get the papers in a place which is pretty safe from deletion based on arguments of POV, etc., and then review them for transfer to Wikibooks. But I have no problem with placement here first, and then a move to Wikiversity if that seems more appropriate at the time. What I don't like is the raw deal of you do all this work on a page or set of pages and then they are deleted because Randy from Boise and a few drive-bys thought it wasn't notable or was something else Bad. (It's hard to imagine a submitted degree thesis or an honor paper that wouldn't be appropriate, at least, for Wikiversity. But the world is big.) --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 19:20, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 
Concerning Thekosher and Abd remarks on undergraduate honors thesis, I am very confused about where papers can be uploaded on the various Wiki Foundation sites. I have a lot of papers that I would like to make more available to the general public. These are undergraduate thesis, Masters thesis, PhD thesis, a collection of working papers published by University Departments, an even larger collection of papers published in academic journals. The copyright of the published papers have been hi-jacked by various publishers, so there seems to be nothing that can be done about these - they will be locked away in print libraries (where nobody will ever read them) until long after I'm dead (which is why I suggested academic papers could be produced on a Wiki). Going one step back, there are the working papers upon which the published papers are based. They are not as polished as the published papers but are a valuable research resource that could be placed in the public domain. Working papers are peer reviewed within a University Department. When I brought up the question publishing these at Wikisource I was told "We would only look at the papers following peer review" by which I understand them to mean that the working papers would have to be peer reviewed again. This requirement would, I think, be difficult to meet because I know of nobody that would be prepared to spend their time reviewing a paper that has already been reviewed. Now Thekosher suggests collecting undergraduate thesis (I do not think this is a bad idea), when papers that are far more developed, and only one step away from being lost for 100 years, have nowhere to go. [[User:Logicalgregory|Logicalgregory]] ([[User talk:Logicalgregory|talk]]) 07:01, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 
   
:If you prefer to stay within the Wikimedia Foundation wikis, then [[v:|Wikiversity]] is the only place that original research is acceptable. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Adrignola|Adrignola]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Adrignola|talk]]</small> 12:28, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
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Hello! I'm writing from the Wikimedia Foundation to invite you to give your feedback on a proposed move from CC BY-SA 3.0 to a CC BY-SA 4.0 license across all Wikimedia projects. The consultation will run from October 5 to November 8, and we hope to receive a wide range of viewpoints and opinions. Please, if you are interested, [[meta:Special:MyLanguage/Terms of use/Creative Commons 4.0|take part in the discussion on Meta-Wiki]].
::Having been peer reviewed means the work isn't original research per say. The existing peer reviewed journals where the work was previous published and polished up could be cited as sources. However the papers are probably most useful if preserved as papers, so Wikiversity would be the place for that since papers are a type of educational resource acceptable there, while non-book materials are not meant to hosted at Wikibooks. Anyone could use the papers when made available at Wikiversity as a bases for developing books at Wikibooks, if they cite the journals where the work was peer reviewed. Since copyright seems to be a concern I think confirming permission with OTRS should be done before making the papers available at Wikiversity. --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;">[[User:Darklama|<font color="midnightblue">dark</font>]][[User_talk:Darklama|<font color="green">lama</font>]]</span> 15:34, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 
   
:If it is in the Public Domain and has been published in a "verifiable, usually peer-reviewed forum", it is welcome at wikisource. The Wikiproject can be found at [[s:Wikisource:WikiProject Academic Papers]]. -[[User:Arlen22|Arlen22]] ([[User talk:Arlen22|talk]]) 18:18, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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''Apologies that this message is only in English. [[meta:Special:MyLanguage/Terms of use/Creative Commons 4.0/MassMessage|This message can be read and translated in more languages here]].'' [[User:JSutherland (WMF)|Joe Sutherland]] ([[User talk:JSutherland (WMF)|talk]]) 01:35, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
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<!-- Message sent by User:JSutherland (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:JSutherland_(WMF)/MassMessage/1&oldid=15962252 -->
   
:: <s>I think, thought I could be wrong, that wikisource requires the material to be published elsewhere before they will accept it. I suppose this keeps people from posting their rejected papers there straight away without correcting the flaws.</s> [[User:Thenub314|Thenub]][[Special:Contributions/Thenub314|314]] ([[User talk:Thenub314|talk]]) 18:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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== What are the exceptions of the policy on redirects? ==
   
== Goodbook ==
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Hello everyone,
   
Please see [[Talk:Main Page]]. Thanks. [[User:Kayau|Kayau]] ([[User talk:Kayau|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Emailuser/Kayau|email]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Kayau|contribs]]) 10:26, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
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[[WB:SPEEDY]] includes "Orphaned redirects that do not conform with Wikibooks:Naming policy or where the names are unlikely to be inadvertently searched for by anyone" as a speedy deletion criterion. While I find the rationale behind that rule reasonable, in practice I feel that there are some reasonable uses of redirects in specific circumstances, and in fact I have created a few of them in my work at [[Haskell]] ("a few", as opposed to, say, systematically setting up alternate names for every page in the book, which would be quite unreasonable). I am thinking of three special cases:
   
== We need another bureaucrat ==
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* To begin with the uncontroversial one, there are the redirects automatically created for moved pages, which prevent link rot both within the book and across the Internet.
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* A related possibility are what we might call "clairvoyance redirects", which are created to prevent link rot and minimise maintenance work due to a planned future reorganisation of the book. One example in the Haskell book is [[Haskell/Applicative functors II]]. I created that because I predicted the target page would eventually have to be split, and so it would be somewhat useful to have a link for using at off-wiki places that wouldn't break after the split. (In this case, though, I currently believe the split will not be necessary after all, and so this redirect will likely end up deleted in any case.)
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* Finally, there are "shortener redirects", which exist merely for supplying convenient links (be them internal to the book or off-wiki) for pages with long titles. For instance, depending on the outcome of this discussion I will create [[Haskell/Applicative prologue]] as a redirect to the new and unorthodoxly-titled [[Haskell/Prologue: IO, an applicative functor]] (in fact, I might even add an information box to the top of the page telling readers about the redirect).
   
Wikibooks could certainly benefit from another bureaucrat. I think any wiki with only one bureaucrat will suffer from a problem: if a bureaucrat decision is challenged, there is nobody to reverse it. (No really, I know bureaucrats cannot uncheck admin rights, and I don't know if a renaming can be reversed but...) Also, if there are two bureaucrats the bureaucrats can keep an eye on one another to see if they made any 'crat mistakes. However I won't nominate anyone in case the nominee refuses, and other admins who are also, IMO, eligible to become a 'crat take offence. If you think you can become a 'crat, please self-nominate. :) [[User:Kayau|Kayau]] ([[User talk:Kayau|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Emailuser/Kayau|email]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Kayau|contribs]]) 01:55, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
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Are any of these use cases, or any others, acceptable?
:A bureaucrat decision naming a sysop can be questioned and reversed at meta, with a showing of local consensus. I do agree, though, that it's better to have two. It may be more important, though, that a 'crat be highly trusted to remain neutral. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 19:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== [[User:Thenub314|Thenub314]]'s bureaucrat nomination ==
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Cheers, [[User:Duplode|Duplode]] ([[User talk:Duplode|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Duplode|contribs]]) 13:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
   
The comment above inspired me to nominate myself as a bureaucrat. As per [[WB:CRAT|policy]] I am advertising my nomination here. [[User:Thenub314|Thenub]][[Special:Contributions/Thenub314|314]] ([[User talk:Thenub314|talk]]) 02:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
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: A general observation: in my experience, most projects aren't terribly red-tape-ish about speedy-deletion criteria; mostly, these sorts of criteria make it ''safe'' for an admin to exercise common sense in deleting various kinds of pages without risk of getting in seriously hot water for doing so. (En.wp tends to red tape, so I suspect their criteria may be treated more as directives than mere permission; of course, en.wp also notoriously has no regular mechanism for revoking adminship.)
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:* Link rot &mdash; how important it is to leave a link after moving probably depends on whether it's the main page of a book or merely one of its subpages, and how long it sat around under the old name, and various issues of old/new page content. Afaik the wiki software, at least in the non-mobile interface, provides a trail of breadcrumbs so it's usually possible to follow a link to the new location of the page after the redirect has been deleted. If someone involved with a book requests deletion of redirects left from moves, I'd probably honor the request in most cases.
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:* Shortner redirects &mdash; within a book, and within reason, this seems to me like mostly an internal choice for the book's contributors.
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: --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pi zero|contribs]]) 14:54, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
   
== Placement of HTML tags: Wiktionary or Wikibooks? ==
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:: {{ping|Pi zero}} That sounds entirely reasonable -- and it's of course great that we can avoid excessive red tape by trusting our admins!
   
Hello. I am a Wiktionarian administrator, interested in seeking feedback and opinions from Wikibookians, to solve an issue directly related to both projects.
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:: (The only thing I would add is that I tend to care rather more than you suggest about external links to subpages. That is mainly because, despite our efforts to the contrary, people often talk about and share links to the Haskell book as if it was a collection of tutorials, rather than a cohesive book with a less pragmatic outlook. I believe that is in part thanks to cultural factors, and so there is not much we can do about it other than making the book even more cohesive and hoping readers appreciate the results. With such a state of affairs, I think it is worth it to play nice and see it that the links to the "Haskell tutorials at Wikibooks" across the Internet keep working, even if calling a chapter of the book a "tutorial" is, to my ears, akin to nails on a chalkboard...)
   
There is [[wiktionary:Wiktionary:Beer parlour#colspan, etc.|an ongoing discussion]] about the existence of individual entries for HTML tags. As notable examples, on Wiktionary, there are ''[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Hyper_Text_Markup_Language/img Appendix:Hyper Text Markup Language/img]'', ''[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Hyper_Text_Markup_Language/h1 Appendix:Hyper Text Markup Language/h1]'' and ''[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Hyper_Text_Markup_Language/title Appendix:Hyper Text Markup Language/title]'', to define, respectively, the tags ''img'', ''h1'' and ''title''.
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:: Thanks, [[User:Duplode|Duplode]] ([[User talk:Duplode|discuss]] [[Special:Contributions/Duplode|contribs]]) 23:00, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
   
However, especially since the creation and maintenance of HTML tags at Wiktionary is a fairly new project, it depends on further consensus. All these pages may conceivably be kept or be deleted from Wiktionary, according to the development of possible discussions and/or votes.
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== Phrasebook question ==
   
One particular argument for deleting these pages from Wiktionary is that there are already pages on Wikibooks, including ''[[HyperText Markup Language/Tag List/img]]'', ''[[HyperText Markup Language/Tag List/option]]'' and ''[[HyperText Markup Language/Tag List/table]]'' for similar purposes, therefore Wiktionarian versions would be redundant.
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Where do phrasebooks for travellers belong? The question has come up in a [https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Votes_for_deletion#Ido_phrasebook Wikivoyage discussion] and Wikibooks has been suggested. [[Special:Contributions/2607:FEA8:E2A0:757:B093:6FBB:AD61:B5CB|2607:FEA8:E2A0:757:B093:6FBB:AD61:B5CB]] ([[User talk:2607:FEA8:E2A0:757:B093:6FBB:AD61:B5CB|discuss]]) 14:36, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
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: Quite a few language books here have a ''section'' that's a phrase book. --[[User:Pi zero|Pi zero]] ([[User talk:Pi zero|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pi zero|contribs]]) 14:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
   
Since the particular message "Given this book is a user guide, it is organized around topics from the user's perspective, not around the names of the tags." is displayed at the top of [[HyperText Markup Language/Tag List]], am I right in assuming that individual pages for each HTML tag would be better placed in Wiktionary? Or, perhaps, there are reasons for keeping them at Wikibooks, that I am unaware of?
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== Editing News #3—2016 ==
   
Thanks in advance. --[[User:Daniel.|Daniel.]] ([[User talk:Daniel.|talk]]) 17:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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<div class="plainlinks mw-content-ltr" lang="en" dir="ltr">
   
:I would consider that page more of an alphabetical index of tags and the note is indicating that the chapters shown at the root of the book will use those tags as needed based on the functional organization of the book. The book as a whole is based around what kinds of things you want to do with HTML rather than going through each tag in turn. HTML tags are not anything close to what I'd imagine being hosted at Wiktionary and it seems like that's a reach for Wiktionary's scope. I compare [[HyperText Markup Language/Tag List/img]] with [[wikt:Appendix:Hyper Text Markup Language/img]] and the former is far superior. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Adrignola|Adrignola]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Adrignola|talk]]</small> 17:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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''[[:m:Special:MyLanguage/VisualEditor/Newsletter/2016/October|Read this in another language]] [[:m:VisualEditor/Newsletter|Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter]]''
   
:: Since Wiktionary is already more reference-like, it makes sense in that view to put them there. But Wikibooks would be a more logical choice given the content and purpose of Wikibooks itself. I can't, however, imagine that a separate book would be created for the reference of each computer language. Which, in turn, means that if they were to be placed on Wikibooks, they'd necessarily have to form part of some sort of appendix within each wikibook on their respective subjects. In either case, a reference list for HTML as well as for other computer languages is certainly extremely useful. I really think we should at least have references for computer languages ''somewhere'' on Wikimedia. But where, I don't know. [[User:CodeCat|CodeCat]] ([[User talk:CodeCat|talk]]) 18:09, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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<div style="float:right;width:230px;{{#switch:ltr|rtl=float:left;margin-left:0;|#default=float:right;margin-right:0;}}margin-left:1em;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;padding:1em;">
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[[File:VisualEditor-logo.svg|200px|center|alt=VisualEditor]]'''Did you know?'''
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<div class="thumbcaption" style="font-size: 90%;">
   
:(edit conflict, above comments by Adrignola and CodeCat not yet read.)That is an interesting question, and one I don't know I have a quick answer to. My feeling is that the tag list you point out is certainly appropriate for the book it is in, that is as an appendix to the textbook on HTML. As to the individual structure of the book, one entry per page seems a bit cumbersome but I usually defer to individual book contributors for how they like to structure their books. So I imagine that the pages are reasonably covered by our scope. I am less familiar with wikitonary's scope, but roughly speaking traditional dictionaries have appendices on all sorts of things (how to convert cups to tablespoons, etc.), and I am not surpirsed that wikitionary has such an appendix. But then again, it really becomes a line as to where the scope begins and ends, this wouldn't be covered in a more traditional dictionary... so, to summarize, I don't know how to feel about these pages at wikitionary, but the pages pointed to in wikibooks are well suited to our scope. I am not sure how to handle the duplication of effort problem. [[User:Thenub314|Thenub]][[Special:Contributions/Thenub314|314]] ([[User talk:Thenub314|talk]]) 18:35, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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Did you know that you can easily re-arrange columns and rows in the visual editor? [[File:VisualEditor table editing menu.png|alt=Screenshot showing a dropdown menu with options for editing the table structure|center|frameless|232x232px]]
   
: I think "HyperText Markup Language/Tag List" with all its subpages should be separated again into a standalone book, named along the lines of "HTML Reference". I do not think a reference book should be presented as an appendix of a guidebook; these should be two standalone books instead. On the other subject, this seems to be a Wikibooks material rather than a dictionary one. --[[User:Dan Polansky|Dan Polansky]] ([[User talk:Dan Polansky|talk]]) 18:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 
   
I think "which project" is the wrong thing to focus on. A dictionary explains how to pronounce words, there definitions, and correct grammar uses. Books may have a glossary, which usually only include unfamiliar words that people in the field should know without details usually found in a dictionary. Books should have glossaries. I think what Wiktionarians should focus on is if explaining how to pronounce words, there definitions, and correct grammar uses for programming terms is relevant to Wiktionary's scope. --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;">[[User:Darklama|<font color="midnightblue">dark</font>]][[User_talk:Darklama|<font color="green">lama</font>]]</span> 18:55, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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Select a cell in the column or row that you want to move. Click the arrow at the start of that row or column to open the dropdown menu (shown). Choose either "Move before" or "Move after" to move the column, or "Move above" or "Move below" to move the row.
   
:: Re Dan: Maybe, but the implication is that there will be more than just one reference book. If there is a HTML reference, then we'll also want a reference book for C, Python and so on for every other computer language with a sizable collection of names. [[User:CodeCat|CodeCat]] ([[User talk:CodeCat|talk]]) 20:09, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
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You can read and help translate [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/VisualEditor/User guide|the user guide]], which has more information about how to use the visual editor.
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</div></div>
   
:::Wiktionary has developed a consistent format to organize morphemes of multiple languages. I believe it may as well be consistently expanded to include commands, tags and other characteristics of computer codes, that may in turn be further organized by categorization and indexes. For example, once this project reaches a certain level of maturity, a page called [[wikt:Appendix:Control flow statements]] could explain "go to", "for" and "while" of various languages together.
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Since the last newsletter, the [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/VisualEditor|VisualEditor Team]] has mainly worked on a new wikitext editor. They have also released some small features and the new map editing tool. Their workboard is available [[phab:project/board/483/|in Phabricator]]. You can find links to the list of work finished each week at [[:mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings|mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings]]. Their [[:mw:VisualEditor/Current_priorities|current priorities]] are fixing bugs, releasing the 2017 wikitext editor as a [[mediawikiwiki:Beta_Features|beta feature]], and improving language support.
:::If one particular goal of Wiktionary is to explain the grammar of many natural languages, it may as well conceivably explain the syntax of programming languages similarly. Since Wikibooks has [[Subject:English language]], in addition to the coverage of English from Wiktionary, I assume each project may treat the same subjects from different approaches, without them becoming redundant to each other. --[[User:Daniel.|Daniel.]] ([[User talk:Daniel.|talk]]) 20:02, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Five-year WMF targets ==
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=== Recent changes ===
   
There was a thread on the foundation-l mailing list on [[wmf:Resolution:Five-year_targets|five-year Wikimedia Foundation targets]] excluding non-Wikipedia projects. Below are some highlights that would be most relevant for those concerned with Wikibooks. The full postings are linked. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Adrignola|Adrignola]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Adrignola|talk]]</small> 15:30, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
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*You can now set text as small or big.[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T53613]
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*Invisible templates have been shown as a puzzle icon. Now, the name of the invisible template is displayed next to the puzzle icon.[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141861] A similar feature will display the first part of hidden HTML comments.[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T147089]
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*Categories are displayed at the bottom of each page. If you click on the categories, the dialog for editing categories will open.[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T145267]
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*At many wikis, you can now add [[mediawikiwiki:Maps|maps]] to pages. Go to the Insert menu and choose the "Maps" item. The Discovery department is adding more features to this area, like geoshapes. You can read more at mediawiki.org.[https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Discovery#Maps]
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*The "Save" button now says "Save page" when you create a page, and "Save changes" when you change an existing page.[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139033] In the future, the "{{int:Savearticle}}" button will say "{{int:Publishpage}}". This will affect both the visual and wikitext editing systems. More [[:m:Editing/Publish|information is available on Meta]].
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*Image galleries now use a visual mode for editing. You can see thumbnails of the images, add new files, remove unwanted images, rearrange the images by dragging and dropping, and add captions for each image. Use the "Options" tab to set the gallery's display mode, image sizes, and add a title for the gallery.[https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T45037]
   
{{cquote|The vast majority of our users are using Wikipedia and not the other projects, which means even a small improvement to Wikipedia is likely to have more impact than even a large improvement to one of the other projects. Sue was very clear that prioritising Wikipedia only applies to the WMF. The community can, and should, continue to improve the other projects, the WMF just feels that its limited resources are better used where they will have more impact.|||Thomas Dalton|[http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-October/061533.html foundation-l mailing list]}}
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=== Future changes ===
   
{{cquote|It's absolutely not clear to me (and I don't think anyone) that a focused investment in, say, textbook development is actually going to result in predictable payoff in a transformatively larger number of sustainable content contributors. That doesn't mean that there isn't a potential for such an investment to be successful, and it doesn't mean that it's not a risk worth taking.|||Erik Moeller|[http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-October/061608.html foundation-l mailing list]}}
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The visual editor will be offered to all editors at the remaining 10 [[:mw:VisualEditor/Rollouts|"Phase 6" Wikipedias]] during the next month. The developers want to know whether typing in your language feels natural in the visual editor. Please post your comments and the language(s) that you tested at [[:mw:Topic:St8y4ni42d0vr9cv|the feedback thread on mediawiki.org]]. This will affect several languages, including [[:w:th:|'''Thai''']], [[:w:my:|'''Burmese''']] and [[:w:arc:|'''Aramaic''']].
   
{{cquote|But let's not kid ourselves -- transformatively increasing the productivity and success of efforts like Wiktionary, Wikibooks, and Wikisource is not just a matter of tiny injections of bugfixes and extensions here and there. It's a matter of serious assessment of all underlying processes and developing social and technical architectures to support them. I hope that we'll eventually be able to make such investments, but I also think it's entirely reasonable to prioritize lower risk investments.|||Erik Moeller|[http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2010-October/061608.html foundation-l mailing list]}}
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The team is working on a modern wikitext editor. The [[Mw:2017 wikitext editor|2017 wikitext editor]] will look like the visual editor and be able to use the citoid service and other modern tools. This new editing system may become available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices in October 2016. You can read about this project in a [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/VisualEditor/Roadmap/Update_2016-06-23|general status update on the Wikimedia mailing list]].
   
:Wow, how extraordinarily depressing. [[User:Thenub314|Thenub]][[Special:Contributions/Thenub314|314]] ([[User talk:Thenub314|talk]]) 17:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
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=== Let's work together ===
   
::Yes. It's not surprising to me, however. It just gives me all the more motivation to prove them wrong. Also, a relevant slide from Wikimania 2010, where Erik Moeller above took a look at the other Wikimedia projects besides Wikipedia: [http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Beyondencyclopediawikimania2010-100714133959-phpapp02.pdf&page=23 Slide 23]. Slides before and after cover the others, for comparison. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Adrignola|Adrignola]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Adrignola|talk]]</small> 19:47, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
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* Do you teach new editors how to use the visual editor? Did you help [[:mw:Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki|set up the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki]]? Have you written or imported [[:mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:TemplateData|TemplateData]] for your most important citation templates? <mark>Would you be willing to help new editors and small communities with the visual editor? Please sign up for the new [[:mw:Help:VisualEditor/Community Taskforce|'''VisualEditor Community Taskforce''']].</mark>
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*If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the [[mail:translators-l|Translators mailing list]] or [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Elitre_(WMF)&action=edit&section=new contact us] directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. {{int:Feedback-thanks-title}}
   
:Maybe I should get to work again! -[[User:Arlen22|Arlen22]] ([[User talk:Arlen22|talk]]) 01:25, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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[[:mw:User:Elitre (WMF)|Elitre (WMF)]]
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</div> 17:49, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
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<!-- Message sent by User:Elitre (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=VisualEditor/Newsletter/Wikis_with_VE&oldid=15960088 -->
   
:I thought Moeller founded Wikinews... Anyway, but how can the WB community prove them wrong? It's not like WB will get much more traffic even if we make it 100% perfect... [[User:Kayau|Kayau]] ([[User talk:Kayau|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Emailuser/Kayau|email]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Kayau|contribs]]) 10:54, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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== Password reset ==
::Quantity matters as much as quality. -[[User:Arlen22|Arlen22]] ([[User talk:Arlen22|talk]]) 13:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 
   
:::Indeed, I would think that high quality textbooks would attract more readers due to gaining higher rankings in search results. The moral of the above is that if we want to succeed, we have to do it ourselves and the WMF cannot be relied upon for support. We prove them wrong about our prospects by not giving up even if the head honchos have forgotten where Wikipedia once was compared to where it is today. It's apparent that they have not heard the idea that the greater the risk, the greater the reward. As Wikipedia has matured, the potential for greater percentage of growth lies in the other projects. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Adrignola|Adrignola]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Adrignola|talk]]</small> 13:11, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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''I apologise that this message is in English. [https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Security%2FPassword+reset&language=&action=page&filter= {{int:Centralnotice-shared-help-translate}}]''
   
::::I think the biggest reason why WP is popular is because it's comprehensive. Whenever I want the basic info about something, I use WP. It's what makes WB less likely to succeed than WP... [[User:Kayau|Kayau]] ([[User talk:Kayau|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Emailuser/Kayau|email]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Kayau|contribs]]) 13:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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We are having a problem with attackers taking over wiki accounts with privileged user rights (for example, admins, bureaucrats, oversighters, checkusers). It appears that this may be because of weak or reused passwords.
   
:::::But that is offset by the fact that textbooks are way different than encyclopedias. Something like [[Excel]], [[PHP]], or [[HTML]] wouldn't exist on Wikipedia. -[[User:Arlen22|Arlen22]] ([[User talk:Arlen22|talk]]) 13:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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Community members are working along with members of multiple teams at the Wikimedia Foundation to address this issue.
   
:::::: Well one thing we have going for us is price, the text book for the course I am teaching at the moment is $209 from the book store. Multiply that by the 140 students I am requiring to by the text, times the number of years the course has been running, it is really quite a lot of money. And the book is ''required'', I would love to convince the department to require something free (modulo printing costs) but we have to get the books there first. On the other hand I have seen many departments print and sell notes developed by the faculty, so if we had something that was a suitable replacement it would be possible to convince them. Last I checked university departments are not so in love with publishing companies either. (I mean really! They make minor tweaks every two years so there can be a new edition, which means students cannot by the old books used as easily. It is an amazing racket.)
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In the meantime, we ask that everyone takes a look at the passwords they have chosen for their wiki accounts. If you know that you've chosen a weak password, or if you've chosen a password that you are using somewhere else, please change those passwords.
:::::: Of course, secondary education and below is a whole different ball game, it would be much more difficult to get a wikibook adopted at that level in the US. [[User:Thenub314|Thenub]][[Special:Contributions/Thenub314|314]] ([[User talk:Thenub314|talk]]) 15:43, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 
   
:::::::http://www.ck12.org is our main competitor on the secondary education front as it is aiming for approval by California's schools. Their licensing was changed to noncommercial a few months back, but I was able to pull content from their site under the cc-by-sa license before that and upload the PDFs to Commons. There are Creative Commons licensed books and material at http://cnx.org, another competitor. The advantage Wikibooks has over these two is that anyone can improve upon the content easily because this is a wiki. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Adrignola|Adrignola]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Adrignola|talk]]</small> 16:12, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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Select strong passwords eight or more characters long, and containing letters, numbers, and punctuation. [[m:User:JSutherland (WMF)|Joe Sutherland]] ([[m:User talk:JSutherland (WMF)|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) / [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]][[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 23:59, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
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<!-- Message sent by User:JSutherland (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:JSutherland_(WMF)/MassMessage/1&oldid=16060701 -->
   
::::::::It's out of the question that secondary schools use learning materials from free sources such as WB, in a truely commercialised world, except for 'non-traditional' subjects such as [[Hong Kong Senior Secondary Liberal Studies|Liberal Studies]]. However, if the education bureau actually allows such materials to be used (which is highly unlikely), I believe it will be extremely popular. There are repeated complaints about book publishers realeasing a new edition every now and then. Sometimes it's necessary. For example, when we were learning planets in primary school, they had to make a new edition of the science book. However, most of the time the changes can be rather trivial, and like Thenub said it can be rather irritating that old books cannot be used. Also, books can be hard to find, especially 'non-traditional' subjects such as Liberal Studies. That's something they are also complaining about. I think using materials from sources such as WB has neither of these advantages and therefore has potential.
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== Adding to the above section (Password reset) ==
:::::::::One major problem we may face is CC-BY-SA. <s>I read in some paper a few years ago that it has been proposed to let CC-BY-SA become an alternative to public domain in Hong Kong law. I'm not sure if they have implemented it though...</s>[http://www.ipd.gov.hk/eng/whats_new/news/creative_commons_1710.pdf it was implemented]. [[User:Kayau|Kayau]] ([[User talk:Kayau|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Emailuser/Kayau|email]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Kayau|contribs]]) 09:37, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Proposing new deletion process ==
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Please accept my apologies - that first line should read "[https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Security%2FPassword+reset&language=&action=page&filter= Help with translations!]". [[m:User:JSutherland (WMF)|Joe Sutherland (WMF)]] ([[m:User talk:JSutherland (WMF)|talk]]) / [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|discuss]] • [[Special:Contributions/MediaWiki message delivery|contribs]]) 00:11, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
This has been moved to [[Wikibooks:Reading_room/Proposals#Proposing_new_deletion_process|the proposals reading room]]. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Adrignola|Adrignola]]&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:Adrignola|talk]]</small> 12:50, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
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<!-- Message sent by User:JSutherland (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:JSutherland_(WMF)/MassMessage/1&oldid=16060701 -->
   
== Regex ==
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== Help test offline Wikipedia ==
   
What regex would I use to remove every ref on a page? -[[User:Arlen22|Arlen22]] ([[User talk:Arlen22|talk]]) 17:19, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
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<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Hello! The Reading team at the Foundation is looking to support readers who want to take articles offline to read and share later on their phones - a use case we learned about from [[m:New_Readers/Findings|deep research earlier this year]]. We’ve built a few prototypes and are looking for people who would be interested in testing them. If you’d like to learn more and give us feedback, '''[[m:New Readers/Offline|check out the page on Meta]]'''! [[User:JSutherland (WMF)|Joe Sutherland (WMF)]] ([[User talk:JSutherland (WMF)|talk]]) 20:08, 29 November 2016 (UTC)</div>
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Latest revision as of 08:13, 30 November 2016

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General | Proposals | Projects | Featured books General | Technical | Administrative Deletion | Undeletion | Import | Permissions

Welcome to the General reading room. On this page, Wikibookians are free to talk about the Wikibooks project in general. For proposals for improving Wikibooks, see the Proposals reading room.

Formatting on thousands of pages will break in 2017[edit]

I wanted to touch base informally about a technical project that will affect your wiki: w:HTML Tidy is a tool that silently fixes some typos in HTML and some wikitext code after a page has been saved. Tidy is being removed as part of a multi-year plan to update the parsers and improve accessibility.

For example, </br> is an invalid HTML code (it should be <br> instead). This currently displays as if it were correct, but that will not be the case when Tidy is removed. You can see the pages affected by this particular error by searching for insource:/\<\/br\>/ in the regular search box. I've recently cleaned up this error in all the templates except for Template:Cite web/doc, which has a problem with the spam blacklist, but there are about 450 pages in the mainspace that still need to be fixed. And that's only one of the errors.

More information, and a list of the major changes, is available at mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy. In December, there will be a tool that you can use to visually check previews on pages that you're concerned about (it'll probably be available in Special:Preferences, but turned off by default). In the meantime, there is a list of known errors at mw:Parsing/Replacing Tidy that you may want to review and check your wiki for.

Most of the information about projects like this is delivered via m:Tech/News. However, nobody at this wiki is subscribed to that weekly newsletter. If you aren't reliably getting this information via another wiki or mailing list, then you may want to subscribe and start watching for announcements like this. Also, if you work at any other project, please share this information. If you have questions or information to share with the devs about this project, please feel free to {{ping}} me. Whatamidoing (WMF) (discusscontribs) 18:56, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done I've treated Template:Cite web/doc. Moreover, my bot could easily correct the 450 pages, however I think that the best would be to treat the maximum number of errors at each edition. JackPotte (discusscontribs) 19:39, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. You might have a look at w:en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Check Wikipedia#Line break tags (plus Bgwhite's user talk page). The tech-savvy gnomes at enwiki have been thinking about this for the last week, and I think they already had several tools and scripts that address these issues. Perhaps some of those would save you some coding time. Whatamidoing (WMF) (discusscontribs) 04:50, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Creative Commons 4.0[edit]

Hello! I'm writing from the Wikimedia Foundation to invite you to give your feedback on a proposed move from CC BY-SA 3.0 to a CC BY-SA 4.0 license across all Wikimedia projects. The consultation will run from October 5 to November 8, and we hope to receive a wide range of viewpoints and opinions. Please, if you are interested, take part in the discussion on Meta-Wiki.

Apologies that this message is only in English. This message can be read and translated in more languages here. Joe Sutherland (talk) 01:35, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

What are the exceptions of the policy on redirects?[edit]

Hello everyone,

WB:SPEEDY includes "Orphaned redirects that do not conform with Wikibooks:Naming policy or where the names are unlikely to be inadvertently searched for by anyone" as a speedy deletion criterion. While I find the rationale behind that rule reasonable, in practice I feel that there are some reasonable uses of redirects in specific circumstances, and in fact I have created a few of them in my work at Haskell ("a few", as opposed to, say, systematically setting up alternate names for every page in the book, which would be quite unreasonable). I am thinking of three special cases:

  • To begin with the uncontroversial one, there are the redirects automatically created for moved pages, which prevent link rot both within the book and across the Internet.
  • A related possibility are what we might call "clairvoyance redirects", which are created to prevent link rot and minimise maintenance work due to a planned future reorganisation of the book. One example in the Haskell book is Haskell/Applicative functors II. I created that because I predicted the target page would eventually have to be split, and so it would be somewhat useful to have a link for using at off-wiki places that wouldn't break after the split. (In this case, though, I currently believe the split will not be necessary after all, and so this redirect will likely end up deleted in any case.)
  • Finally, there are "shortener redirects", which exist merely for supplying convenient links (be them internal to the book or off-wiki) for pages with long titles. For instance, depending on the outcome of this discussion I will create Haskell/Applicative prologue as a redirect to the new and unorthodoxly-titled Haskell/Prologue: IO, an applicative functor (in fact, I might even add an information box to the top of the page telling readers about the redirect).

Are any of these use cases, or any others, acceptable?

Cheers, Duplode (discusscontribs) 13:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

A general observation: in my experience, most projects aren't terribly red-tape-ish about speedy-deletion criteria; mostly, these sorts of criteria make it safe for an admin to exercise common sense in deleting various kinds of pages without risk of getting in seriously hot water for doing so. (En.wp tends to red tape, so I suspect their criteria may be treated more as directives than mere permission; of course, en.wp also notoriously has no regular mechanism for revoking adminship.)
  • Link rot — how important it is to leave a link after moving probably depends on whether it's the main page of a book or merely one of its subpages, and how long it sat around under the old name, and various issues of old/new page content. Afaik the wiki software, at least in the non-mobile interface, provides a trail of breadcrumbs so it's usually possible to follow a link to the new location of the page after the redirect has been deleted. If someone involved with a book requests deletion of redirects left from moves, I'd probably honor the request in most cases.
  • Shortner redirects — within a book, and within reason, this seems to me like mostly an internal choice for the book's contributors.
--Pi zero (discusscontribs) 14:54, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
@Pi zero: That sounds entirely reasonable -- and it's of course great that we can avoid excessive red tape by trusting our admins!
(The only thing I would add is that I tend to care rather more than you suggest about external links to subpages. That is mainly because, despite our efforts to the contrary, people often talk about and share links to the Haskell book as if it was a collection of tutorials, rather than a cohesive book with a less pragmatic outlook. I believe that is in part thanks to cultural factors, and so there is not much we can do about it other than making the book even more cohesive and hoping readers appreciate the results. With such a state of affairs, I think it is worth it to play nice and see it that the links to the "Haskell tutorials at Wikibooks" across the Internet keep working, even if calling a chapter of the book a "tutorial" is, to my ears, akin to nails on a chalkboard...)
Thanks, Duplode (discusscontribs) 23:00, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Phrasebook question[edit]

Where do phrasebooks for travellers belong? The question has come up in a Wikivoyage discussion and Wikibooks has been suggested. 2607:FEA8:E2A0:757:B093:6FBB:AD61:B5CB (discuss) 14:36, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Quite a few language books here have a section that's a phrase book. --Pi zero (discusscontribs) 14:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Editing News #3—2016[edit]

17:49, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Password reset[edit]

I apologise that this message is in English. ⧼Centralnotice-shared-help-translate⧽

We are having a problem with attackers taking over wiki accounts with privileged user rights (for example, admins, bureaucrats, oversighters, checkusers). It appears that this may be because of weak or reused passwords.

Community members are working along with members of multiple teams at the Wikimedia Foundation to address this issue.

In the meantime, we ask that everyone takes a look at the passwords they have chosen for their wiki accounts. If you know that you've chosen a weak password, or if you've chosen a password that you are using somewhere else, please change those passwords.

Select strong passwords – eight or more characters long, and containing letters, numbers, and punctuation. Joe Sutherland (discuss) / MediaWiki message delivery (discusscontribs) 23:59, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Adding to the above section (Password reset)[edit]

Please accept my apologies - that first line should read "Help with translations!". Joe Sutherland (WMF) (talk) / MediaWiki message delivery (discusscontribs) 00:11, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Help test offline Wikipedia[edit]

Hello! The Reading team at the Foundation is looking to support readers who want to take articles offline to read and share later on their phones - a use case we learned about from deep research earlier this year. We’ve built a few prototypes and are looking for people who would be interested in testing them. If you’d like to learn more and give us feedback, check out the page on Meta! Joe Sutherland (WMF) (talk) 20:08, 29 November 2016 (UTC)