Wikibooks:Votes for undeletion/Archive 3

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This is historical information, please do not vote here or otherwise alter its content. See votes for undeletion for a list of active undeletion votes.

Simply cut old sections from the main WB:VFU page, then paste them paste at the bottom.

Contents

[edit] Organic Chemistry Images

Many of the images in the organic chemistry textbook were uploaded by Karl Wick, who it looks like hasn't been around since July, or so. I don't know the guy, so I can't vouch for the source of the images, but I'd like to at least make an argument for some on his delete list to be undeleted:

Butane.png, ethane.png, ethene.png, methyl.png, pentane.png, propane.png, D-orbital.png, S-orbital.png, P-orbital.png, Isobutane2.png, N-pentane1.png, N-pentane2.png, Pi-bonding.png, 2-cyclopropylbutane.png, Bicyclo2.1.0pentane.png, Cyclopropane.png, Linepentane.png, Propaneline.png, Cyclopentaneline.png, Cyclopropaneline.png, Ethylcyclopentane.png, 1,1-dimethylcyclopentane.png, 1,1-dimethylcyclopentane.png, 1,3-dicyclopropylpropane.png, 1,3-dimethylcyclopentane.png, 237trimethyloctanelines.png, Dibromomethylcyclohexane.png, Dibromomethylcyclohexane2.png, 1,1-Dichloro-3-methylcyclo.png, Cyclopropylethylmethylcyclo.png, Cholesterolrings.png, Delta-bonding.png, Methylnewman.png - All of these images are simple, unedited, ChemDraw captures. Some of them are very simple, uncopyrightable shapes: square, hexagon, etc. There are other images in his list that are also ChemDraw renderings, but have possibly been edited and I'm not including them, since I can't say if they were edited and if so, by whom.

Arrow.png - This may also be ChemDraw, but I can't be sure. It's a tiny arrow. There are only so many ways to make an arrow this size... Surely no copyright is involved.

-- Pete 17:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately our hands are tied... they were deleted/will be deleted because they have no copyright status, and attempts to contact him have been unsuccessful. --SB_Johnny | talk 18:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Understood. Just thought I'd try to save what I could. I was looking over Wikimedia Commons and they seem to have a lot of chemistry images. Whatever else is missing, I can reproduce with ChemDraw myself. Just trying to save myself some work, but I certainly understand the situation. -- Pete 18:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
The simple ones are most likely ineligible for copyright; that is, they consist of information that is common property and contains no original authorship. I created a template ({{PD-ineligible}}) based off of the Commons counterpart ({{PD-ineligible}}). I don't think we should tag images as ineligible for copyrihgt en masse, but those that are just lines and letters (with no color or stylistic features) certainly seem, to me at least, to contain no original authorship. I have tagged a few chemical structures with it. Of course, the image deletion bot (if we ever get one) will have to recognize these tags, so I guess my work won't matter if you (the administrators) find that you don't want to add more copyright complications — User:Iamunknown 18:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Undelete - this is something that is perhaps a bit of some people being a little bit over zealous here. As I was pointed out on a discussion on Foundation-l about copyright, there is a statue of limitations that applies to even blatantly obvious copyright violations that must be dealt with between three and five years (depending on the kind of infringement and other factors) in order for the copyright owner to take formal legal action. I'm not sayhing that necessarily this is justfication, but there was also a presumption in the beginning of Wikibooks (and Wikipedia) that "all" content was available under the GFDL, or perhaps fair use rationales. I'm not saying this is perfect, and this is precisely why all new images require a disclaimer of copyright status. But at the same time older images should have a presumption of "good faith", which would include the idea that these were legitimate uploads unless the original uploader claims otherwise. And in pointing out the statue of limitations, these images were old enough that they may even fall under those specific exceptions. This doesn't mean that they can necessarily be redistributed under the GFDL with other content (certainly a reason to keep them deleted), but the need to get them deleted immediately is not pressing either. --Rob Horning 20:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Undelete - we can use Template:GFDL-presumed on them. --Iamunknown 20:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
      • If there are any older images left on Wikibooks, I would strongly recommend that, yes. I don't know how many images that involves, but the number of images that are listed on the deletion log is huge lately. --Rob Horning 04:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - Karl Wick posted something on either textbook-l or foundation-l recently... has anyone tried to get in touch with him again?--SB_Johnny | talk 21:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
    I did get in touch with Karl Wick, and he cleared up the issues with his images. I posted a note concerning the status of these images on his user page. All the chemistry images are created by him, and released under the GFDL. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 22:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Well here's a question then: do we know which images we need to undelete?--SB_Johnny | talk 23:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Undelete We should assume good faith unless images are obviously copyrighted or a complaint about breach of copyright is received. Xania talk 19:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images from Engineering Acoustics/Piezoelectric Transducers

Please resurrect the following images, linked to the page listed:

I strongly suspect that:

  • at least some of these images are ineligible for copyright, and were thus deleted in error
  • some of these images may have been scientific formulas, thus could be better implemented as wiki markup (but need the images to be able to translate to markup)

cheers, Webaware talk 02:27, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Restored pro tem to allow discovery of licensed alternatives. Anyone wanting an argument - they were sitting there for ages before they were deleted and others still are --Herby talk thyme 08:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC) (AKA slightly grumpy!)
I'm going to take a look at these, and see if we can't come up with some kind of alternative. I know commons has many images of electric circuits, so i will scavange through there to see if i can find a suitable replacement. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
G'day, the last two on the list have been taken care of (as wiki markup). Response.gif is a simple graph, and may be available on commons, but would be easy to redraw. The other two are circuits - if you can find them or redraw them yourself, that would be very good, as although the first image is very simple, the third image is a bit more complex and I've not tried drawing a circuit on a computer since Uni (15 years ago, and with obviously ancient software!) Webaware talk 07:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
  • reset

Having a bad day, so I'm buggerising around with Visio. I just rebuilt the top three images, so all three are now licensed. The bottom two images have been replaced by wiki markup, and can thus be deleted by anyone who has a passion for deleting stuff. Please let me know if you want help rebuilding other images (although I'm likely to rebuild them as raster, not vector, at this stage at least). Webaware talk 03:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] SAT Essay Prompts

I do not see the reason for having these deleted. It was a great archive of SAT essay prompts that helps me study for my SAT. It was in no way illegal because it only published the prompts after the mandatory one month waiting period. I would like to see it again. Please e-mail them to me or put them back up. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.62.230.203 (talk • contribs) .


Comment — Wikibooks isn't an archive. Quite a few were marked as violating the copyrights of collegeboard for 3 weeks without being contested and undoubtedly the rest were also copyright violations. The main page of the book even said the prompts were all taken from collegeboard. Looking at both, showed the text was copied from collegeboard word for word, and even some of the edit summaries mentioned copying from collegeboard. The collegeboard website in its "terms of use", as I understand it, requires written permission to reuse, distribute, modify, reproduce, etc. any contents from its website. Even if it may not be illegal to copy it where you live, its still a violation of Wikibook's policy to copy such contents without the copyright holder's permission to use it under the terms of the GFDL. --darklama 17:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Keep Deleted I agree with darklama. Wikibooks is not simply an archive, nor is it a storage location for materials that are under a restrictive copyright. Furthermore if we undelete that material, even just to email it to you, we are in violation of copyright law and we could be penalized. Now, if you could show us that these are legitimately not a copyright violation, we could consider undeletion. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 17:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok, thank you for your response. I understand now how it is a copyright violation. I serached and found another archive online...


[edit] Embedded Systems/Embedded System Basics/Fixed-Point Arithmetic

Today Embedded Systems/Embedded System Basics/Fixed-Point Arithmetic is a single link to another page. Today when I checked the history of this page, there is only one edit, its creation on 19 May 2007.

When I read its talk page and the few pages that link to it, I get the impression that there used to be something more here long before that. Perhaps this was page deleted when I wasn't watching?

If you have access, would you mind looking for an older version of that page? I'd like to view it (send the entire content to me, or undelete it and send me a ping). Thank you.

--DavidCary 07:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

There was something before that; you were one of the contributors. I'll let Whiteknight respond before taking any action since he deleted the module (although without putting a reason in the log... tsk tsk :P) – Mike.lifeguard | talk 13:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed that you wanted to view it, not undelete it. No problem - I've emailed it to you. I still wonder why it was deleted though? – Mike.lifeguard | talk 13:54, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Wow, it's been a long time, I had to look this up in the logs because I couldnt remember why I deleted it. For a bit of history, you can check out the deletion log for 14 June 2006. I thought I had left a note about it, but looking through the various page histories I cannot find one. My bad.
It was part of an effort to "flatten" the book. I.E. All the pages that were named "Embedded Systems/CHAPTER/PAGE" were reorganized to be simply "Embedded Systems/PAGE". You may notice that I wasnt able to figure out what to do about the various RTOS pages, so they are still "unflat". Also, this was back before I knew about history mergers, so the reorganization process was sloppy. I appologize for that also. I do want to point out that no content was lost, it was simply copy+paste moved to other pages. In this case, the page that the link points to contains the previous text of the page. If you check the logs I deleted several pages that day, and reorganized much of the book.
I hope this answers your question about it. Since the content still exists, I dont think we need to undelete the page. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 02:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, thank you for reorganizing, Whiteknight.

Mike.lifeguard showed me "the last good version" of the page, a couple of paragraphs that I see have been moved to Embedded Systems/Embedded System Basics. Thank you, Mike.lifeguard! So I agree that no content has been lost, and there's no need to undelete the page.

Still, I find it odd that "floating point" gets an entire chapter in the Embedded Systems book, while "fixed point" (which I suspect is used in more embedded systems) doesn't. Although on closer look, the contents of the Embedded Systems/Floating Point Unit seem to cover both fixed point and floating point.

Now that I think about it, understanding floating point numbers requires understanding fixed-point numbers, so perhaps it is best to cover them both in one chapter rather than separate "floating point" and "fixed point" chapters. I imagine that some student familiar with programming PCs may wonder "How do I do floating point?". I expect such a student may have never heard of "fixed point", and so we'll want to tell a student searching for "floating point" how "fixed point" might be a better solution for what he's really trying to do.

Should we rename Embedded Systems/Floating Point Unit to make it more obvious that it covers both kinds of numbers? Then change Embedded Systems/Embedded System Basics/Fixed-Point Arithmetic to a redirect to that page?

--DavidCary 04:49, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

You're right that things dont necessarily make sense to be laid out in the precise way that they are currently. I don't think that anybody else is working actively on this book (i certainly am not, at the moment), so you are welcome to make any changes that you see fit. If you need any administrator-style help (deleting pages, merging page histories, etc) let me know. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 21:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please undelete "Communicable and Chronic Diseases"!

For my Comprehensive School Health Education class at Purdue University North Central, we are making a Wikibook to further inform everyone about how to teach health and what goes along with the teachings. Everyone in my class has one of the 10 sujects areas in health. I would really appreciate if this were undeleted becuase this is for a grade and I am going to continue working on it! Thanks!

Jeff Edinger —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.12.93.108 (talk • contribs) 00:36, October 13, 2007.

Undeleted - here. If you need help developing the book, feel free to ask on my talk page. – Mike.lifeguard | talk 15:32, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please undelete "Teaching Assistant in France Survival Guide/Directory"

(VfD discussion here)

The page in question was deleted as a result of an "abusive" be bold action (abusive in the sense it didn't respect other people expressed opinion on the subject, and was directly opposed to the wishes of the community discussion on the topic). The rational for the delete action in my view is not correct (would apply to a book but not to a page on a book), check the discussion log for the Vfd for more info if needed I may also ask for other users support on the undelete. --Panic 18:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Support Undeletion - I'm not ready to blatantly revert the decision by Darklama and engage in wheelwaring on this topic, but I do think the decision to undelete in this case was not conclusive. At best the VfD could be read as a lack of concensus, rather than a concensus to delete. I did support keeping the page for reasons I mentioned in the VfD vote, and I think they still apply here. And more to the point, since the page has been deleted there is harm that has been done compared to leaving it as-is but with a request for more discussion on the topic, as this page is referenced from several other spots externally to Wikibooks. More to the point, if this page really was to be deleted, it would have been preferred to have some place like Wikia or some other web page that it could have been moved to, rather than treated like yesterday's spam, as the information that was found on this page is of some value. --Rob Horning 03:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I made my decision based on the weight/quality of the arguments presented after looking at the book and that page, and what I think was best for the community. For example, I do agree that the length of page and problems with it being outdated were not reasons to delete it and that it may have had some value. However you seemed to agree that it would be more appropriate hosted somewhere else besides a Wikimedia project despite voting to keep it and Whiteknight pointed out that not all useful/valuable information belongs on Wikibooks, which I also agree with. Over a month had passed without comment before it was closed, which I believe was enough time for someone to deal with the problems that had been brought up, but which nobody did address. Besides the issues that were brought up it seemed clear to me that this particular page was inconsistent with the rest of the book in its scope, and not only had potential to be abused by spammers and unverifiable, but also a potential source for troubles with unqualified individuals claiming to be teaching assistances, which is similar in nature to a problem faced on Wikipedia not too long ago and caused some new foundation policy to be passed I think. However even putting that issue aside, I think it broke Wikibooks' policy on advertising or self-promotion and Wikibooks is not a free wiki host or webspace provider because its intentions were to encourage teach assistances in France to promote themselves and provide contact information which seems more appropriate for their user page or a separate website, and/or could easy violate Foundation:Privacy policy from having someone else's contact information added without their knowledge.
If someone specifically asks for the information so they can copy it to another website, then any administrator who feels comfortable with doing so can copy the information and email it to them. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so due to possibly giving out someone's contact information who did not give permission for there information to be given out. --darklama 20:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Txs for providing the motivation (in extended form for what was said on the final/closing argument), but even if I agree with some of your points I disagree on the final result and on several of the perceived problems.
After a work/page is nominated for VfD and participation is started the Wikibooks:Deletion policy and Wikibooks:Votes for deletion policies define how to proceed. Nomination results for the need for input from other Wikibookians in form of comments or participation of a pool and fallows the Wikibooks:Decision making policy, in you closing action you subverted that process acting on you own judgment (that is only defined as a Be Bold action), that was incorrect since it disregarded the stated wishes of other Wikibookians as reflected on the votes (not comments) performed on the discussion, the simples result of validating that one sided action is that it will make people stop to participate on VfD discussion since it removes any usefulness to a discussion. Why participate if your opinion is not weighted or has an impact on the decission, I don't think that this is useful or promotes the growth of participation on the Wikibooks project.
Even if the deletion action was the result of a direct Be Bold action as a speedy deletion, several points you raise could and were objected to, that would probably result on a similar undelete request as the present one and probably that was the reason behing the VfD nomination in the first place.
I and most of the Wikibookians participating on the VfD are looking from outside of the book, it is not our work and the argumentation is given in general terms but someone that seems to have a direct working relation to it stated that the VfD was without merit. By doing so the page was validated by the book community as valid and wanted.
As for the content I agree with you and with Rob Horning but should we now start to take preemptive action against spammers as rule of thumb (beside blocking open proxys)? I don't think this is proper and useful as it will limit participation and growth of the project, getting us in conflict with the golden rule to expect the best from people. In this case no one pointed any problem or abuse (even of privacy), it doesn't fall under advertisement, soapbox or even of self promotion, if the page was all of the work then I would agree that Wikibooks is not a free wiki host or webspace provider would apply but as it stood it served the book community and was even intended to promote the book and wikibooksas project and open for participation.
The problem of the information being unverifiable doesn't have any impact on the information provided since it was just an aggregation of contact information added by each one about one self, not third person and in a voluntarily manner and as you state most aren't even registered Wikibookians. We could advice and place a warning tag but per se it is not a violation of the Foundation:Privacy policy.
Tranwiki or providing help to move the content also doesn't raise a problem as the content was public and probably is automatically replicated in several other mirrors of Wikibooks content. People have committed the information under the GFDL so this is a not even an issue.
What my undelete request attempt to pass is that the deletion was not a result of a VfD (or a proper VfD) and inferring it as such is wrong. I would have not objected if it was the result of a speedy deletion. I'm not defending the content or the validly of the page beyond what I personally have stated on the VfD discussion, the book community should do it if it finds the deletion unwanted, but as it stood I had no "problem" with the page in question, and would raise the same points if the rational was used against the wishes of those working on the book/page. --Panic 23:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
In reference to the suggestion that you can simply make a request to an administrator after the information is deleted, I think this is a suggestion that lacks any real merit. More to the point, It would be very difficult to know that the information even exists, unless you are well versed in the details of Wikimedia projects and the MediaWiki software. It would have been far better to place the {{Impending Doom}} template on the content and leave that template on there for a reasonable period of time while those participating can find an alternative website to host this content. That sort of discussion certainly did not take place at all, at least from what I saw on the VfD page or elsewhere. If after some time there still is no discussion about where to move it, it would then be very appropriate to simply kill the page. A reasonable period of time is certainly much more than a week.
Fortunately/unfortunately, the damage is already done. The page is now deleted, and any community that might exist to promote its inclusion within Wikibooks is gone now. With over 400 edits to this page, there certainly was a pretty broad community of people who did use/read/contribute to its content, most of them people from outside of the typical group of Wikibookians that participate in internal Wikibooks discussions. --Rob Horning 19:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
It was over a month before I closed the discussion, not a week. As far as the issue of loss of useful information, since my original response to you, SB_Johnny has imported it and given it a home on Wikiversity under v:Teaching Assistant in France Survival Guide/Directory. --darklama 22:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose undeletion - Obviously (since I nominated it for deletion), I think it should stay deleted. It should certainly be noted, however, that anyone who wants to host the material elsewhere is welcome to a copy of it, and it would be provided upon request. I'd also like to point out that the quality of comments at VFD is what counts; I think darklama had it perfect on the evaluation of the comments. The absolute least we can do is assume good faith instead of tossing around "abusive." In the end, I say: "Useful and up-to-date it may be, but Wikibooks content it is not; it stays deleted." – Mike.lifeguard | talk 04:07, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The action was performed against the expressed views (the VfD pool, 2 for delete 5 for keep), VfD shouldn't be open for Be Bold actions once the VfD is started and people are participating. Indecision was not the reason for the action taken and it disregarded the VfD proceedings and opinions expressed. How would you qualify the action ? (I may have worded it badly).
In any case you opposition to the undeletion is week, you justify it with your expressed vote for deletion not addressing the reason the undelete was requested. Opposition to this this undelete should be backed by proper reasoning for the "violation" of the VfD policy, this is the ground for my request for the undelete. --Panic 15:42, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Actually, my reasoning does address the reason you requested undeletion. Your reason was "The page in question was deleted as a result of an "abusive" be bold action." And my reason for opposing undeletion was "I think darklama had it perfect on the evaluation of the comments." – Mike.lifeguard | talk 17:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
My I understand that by "I think darklama had it perfect on the evaluation of the comments.", you also support the disregard for the proceedings stipulated on the VfD and the implementation of unilateral decisions ? (And take note that they were not comments, but votes as defined on the VfD)
Since it wasn't a misinterpretation of the discussion; We can't even call it a proper evaluation, since most opposed to the action taken. And if indeed it was evaluated it only took into regard the intended result, the required action and any subsequent opposition to it (and so I called it abusive, of the rules and people).
This was made in total disregard to a consensual decission, against the policy and in seemingly "intended" disregard to other peoples opinions. I would like and ask you if possible that you extend your interpretation of the event in a way it can be validated and taken in consideration. You may be against policies but you must not break them. In this case interpretation of the policy could, but seems improbable, to have been the basis for the action (since it is clear it was taken against the flow of opinions), and I don't think you are validating the refusal of consensual decission of supporting the violation of the VfD policy... --Panic 18:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Support Undeletion. Can't see why it was deleted nor what the point is of deleting individual pages of books. It seems that concensus wasn't reached. Xania talk 23:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Keep deleted . First off, panics assertion that this action by Darklama was "abusive" is way out of line, and it's this kind of uncivil statement that has gotten him in trouble in the past. Second, you are trying to cause a disruption to prove a point. That is, you are trying to have a page undeleted based soley on the grounds that you don't like the way in which it was deleted. You haven't made any sort of case based on any real policy as to why the page should not have been deleted, or why it should be undeleted now. On the other hand, Darklama and myself did list several policy-based reasons why the page should have been deleted. Also, we do not vote, so the final vote tally is inconsequential. Darklama weighted the rationale behind those votes, found the rationale for keeping the page to be lacking, and decided to delete the page. Unless you can present a solid reason why the page should not have been deleted based on the merits of the page itself (and not on your intepretations of the failings of darklama's decision making), this request is moot. Also, I suggest you stop hassleing people and being so quick to declare "abuse". --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 16:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
The assertion is valid Darklama is an administrator that implies that he acts with full knowledge of the implications; Abusive doesn't translate to bad intentions or even bad faith, only to improper OR wrongful action. I have clarified the context of the use of the word in the first utilization.
I'm not attempting to cause any disruption I considered writing to Darklama privately as I have done in past action of disagreement (even with you), I only did it more publicly because my last post on his talk page did not receive a reply, and I knew full well that in the event the deletion was not archived someone else would have objected to it. (PS: I haven't contacted anyone for support nor have I "publicized" the disagreement)
The reasons of why the page should not be deleted were added to the discussion by my (and others) argumentations and votes and all interpretations are of the same value of Darklama's own, it is clear that consensus was not reached, why should his view be the only deciding factor? --Panic 17:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, as always you have all sorts of rationalizations for why you are being disruptive, and as usual I am hardly moved by them. Only an administrator can decide whether to delete or undelete a page. You can make your opinion, but you cannot make that final decision. Darklama can, however, by virtue of that administrator flag. This is why giving thoughtful rationale that is grounded in policy and precident is so important to the consensus decision-making process. My comment on the VfD discussion contained a number of points of how this page violated policy. If the page is indeed shown to be a policy violation, any administrator can delete it speedily. So even though you don't feel that we all stopped and obeyed your suggestions, and despite the fact that you wish more people would do everything you say, that's just not the way things happen around here, panic. If anybody is being abusive around here, I would say that it's you as usual. I'm not going to let you misuse the system in order to get your enemies (darklama) in "trouble". --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 00:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
This is the last post I'll make to you and on this page, you may like to point out how disruptive I'm or what my motivations are but I think I have pretty much been always clear and as direct as I can, if you are attempting again to validate your views by attacking my motivations and character so be it, but I will from now on ignore you on that basis, I have as much right to defend my view points as anyone else.
The process to reach a decision was usurped here, you may try to defend it but I think you are smart enough to see that that view is indefensible... --Panic 03:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
You have no motivations here, on this page, other then trying to show that Darklama has been abusive. Even trying to explain away your use that word doesnt make it less of a personal attack against him. You haven't given a single reason why the page should be undeleted on it's own merits, or how the page is not a violation of policy. This is not a page where we request undeletions of pages because you don't agree with the speed with which they were deleted, or because you don't think that a page should be deleted because you said so, or because you don't like the person who deleted it. A number of reasons to delete the page were given, none of those were rebutted in over a week, and so an administrator deleted the page. This whole thing here is little more then an assumption of bad faith by you against darklama, and that is completely unacceptable. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 03:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
A majority (albeit slim) voted to keep this book and produced arguements that explained why. Are we saying that an administrator's arguement is worth more than others? I would prefer such votes to be decided on numbers only in future as the Wiki system of basing a decision on the "strength" of the arguement rather than the number of votes is open to abuse (not in this case) or in this case disagreements. Xania talk 22:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Are you seriously asking for a descent into majority rule? Your only comment in the VfD was that the page is "potentially useful", you never once addressed any of the policy concerns that other users brought up. In that sense I would say that yes, your comment carried less weight then that of other people's. We do have policies, and we do delete pages that might be "potentially useful" all the time. If a vague sense of potential worth is your only criteria for keeping pages, I can name a dozen other wiki-based websites that are more in line with those kinds of goals.
Mattb voted to keep the page because it "doesnt seem to be out of date". Panic voted that he would delete the page if it were an entire book, and not just a page (hardly a glowing vote of support), and Rob horning's vote while thoughtful, was hardly persuasive. Rob said that "the survival guide does not strictly need this directory in order to exist", and went on to say that the primary value of the page was as a measure of "how many people are actually reading and using the survival guide". In other words, the most thoughtful vote that was received only went so far as to say that the page wasn't necessary, and it's primary benefit was to be used as a general sort of page counter. Sorry if the jury wasnt persuaded by these arguments. VfD isn't a place where we discuss our feelings about the book, it's a place where we weight the book's conformance to existing policy, and make a rational decision based on that weight. Because of this, there are some votes that are going to be rendered inconsequential, and i'm not prepared to allow decisions like this to be decided by inconsequential votes. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 23:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
No "we" aren't saying that. I would say ideally providing reasons for why someone supports or opposes something in a easily understood manner, explains why they believes the best outcome would be reached by following there lead, offers possible alternatives or suggestions if they disagree with a position, and offers to help with the alternative solution if supported, while maintaining a friendly, positive, civil and open attitude would carry the greatest weight. With "me too", "support", "oppose", "I disagree", etc. votes without any reasons or explanations being given carrying the least weight. I believe simple vote counting is open to more abuse then weighing the votes, because it would allow people to game the system for what they want the outcome to be, reducing the motivation to compromise and discuss disagreements. Also according to Meta Polls are evil. Weighing discussion has less room for abuse because if someone disagrees with someone's interpretation of the outcome then discussion can be reopened and the previous decision challenged without the same person making the decision again or someone can try to convince the person who made the decision to change there mind. Ideally someone who is neutral and didn't participate in any of the discussions should make the decisions, however we're all merely human and cannot be expected to do so objectively, and make perfect decisions that will satisfy everyone completely all of the time. --darklama 23:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Oppose undeletion. As herbythyme pointed out in the VfD discussion, this is not only a list of personal information, but it's also not verifiable (majority of edits are by IPs). Best option for recreating it would be for someone to just email everyone on that list, and ask them to set up an account (with email enabled), so that they can recieve email without posting it here. Asking people to make accounts isn't perfect, but at the very least it will ensure email address confirmation before someone starts actually sending emails to people. --SB_Johnny | PA! 23:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Oppose undeletion - Sorry I didn't vote for it before. You guys have said it all above and I'm not going to step into that battle, so I'll leave this at "I don't think this is acceptable Wikibooks material per WIW". -withinfocus 03:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Oppose undeletion --Herby talk thyme 09:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genetic transformator for block-based loss-less compression

This was transwiki'd from Wikibooks to Wikisource, where it was deleted because it isnt a "published work" (see s:Wikisource:Proposed deletions/Archives/2007-08#Genetic transformator for block-based loss-less compression). The deleted content on WS names the author as "Klaus Sausen", links to a dead link that is available on archive.org, which releases it under the GFDL and mentions a "Open Documentation License".

It was previously linked to from Genetic Programming and Algorithms; it might be suitable as a sub-page. John Vandenberg (talk) 02:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but Wikibooks is not a place to publish original works. That's exactly what this seems to be. Perhaps it's not OR; if so, please correct me.  – Mike.lifeguard | talk 03:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
It is mostly descriptive rather than research. It could be whipped into shape. John Vandenberg (talk) 09:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
The use of genetic algorithms for lossless compression is not a new or exotic field of study. However, I think a problem arises from the word "transformator", which is basically a non-english translation of the word "transformer", or "transformation". Searching for "Genetic Transformator" in google returns very few results, most of which are directly related to wikibooks or wikisource. Searching for "Genetic transformer" or even "Genetic transformer for block-based lossless compression" returns a large number of relevant results. Later, when I have time, I want to do a careful readthrough of this page to ensure that it isn't nonsense or quackery. If not, I would vote to keep. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 15:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Future Media Class

This was just deleted per VFD because it wasn't a textbook. It was transwikied to WV, and deleted here. I'd like it to be undeleted since the intent is to make a textbook, not WV-style content. The deviation was a combination of little oversight from the teacher, and the students not understanding the direction they should be heading. WV is welcome to keep their copy, but the class should work on the copy here, and turn it back into a textbook, which is what the intent was all along.  – Mike.lifeguard | talk 16:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Support --AdRiley (talk) 16:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Support This is by the same people who are working on Advanced Interactive Media Class, which (despite the course-related name) is intended to also be a book. I am currently in discussions with the professor of this course, and am going to personally see that these are properly book-formatted within the next few days/weeks. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 17:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Support - and I note that this one was transwikied just two days after listing on VfD, and the VfD closed three days after listing - too short to allow for responses to the VfD, IMHO. We should not be rushing to conclusion on such issues as book deletion. Webaware talk 22:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Done Or, "doing". This idea has received both support here, and at the related VfD discussion. I'm going to start undeleting this book now. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 22:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Votes_for_undeletion/Archive_3"
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