User talk:Xania/Archive 1

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[edit] Welcome

Hello and welcome to Wikibooks!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

You will find more resources in Community Portal. If you want to ask a question, visit the Study help desk, the Staff lounge, IRC channel or ask me personally on my talk page.

Good luck! --Derbeth talk 08:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polish course

I am pleased to hear such words but I am not the author of this text. ;-) Anyway, good to know that Wikibooks is so helpful to people. --Derbeth talk 08:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WB:VFD

Any user may vote on VFD. Thank you very much for participating in those discussions. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 22:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] qr tags

Hi... I noticed you're doing some new page patrolling, and you might want yo have a look at {{qr-em}} and {{qr-dup}}. These are a bit better for small, newly-created modules. Thanks for helping out! --SB_Johnny | talk 18:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metric units

Hi, when converting units, please leave the original units first and put converted units in parentheses. Kellen T 10:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Doing some great work on the metrification there - thanks --Herby talk thyme 14:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
As a ps, while you are wandering round cookery pages feel free to add ||{{PAGENAME}} to make the recipe show correctly on an alpha basis? No worries if you don't/miss any, I'll be doing them too! - thanks --Herby talk thyme 14:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

G'day Xania, I noticed that you added [[Category:Recipes_with_metric_units|Metric Recipes]] to a couple of pages I'm watching. Please note that this incorrectly orders them all under "M" in the category. Instead, to correctly order these pages, please use the following: [[Category:Recipes with metric units|{{PAGENAME}}]]. cheers, Webaware 22:20, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quarts, etc.

A quart is two pints, or 4 cups. A pint is 2 cups. A gallon is 4 quarts.

Confusing, isn't it? :-). --SB_Johnny | talk 14:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alpha cats

The issue here is that all recipes (without attention) will show up on the category page under C for Cookbook which is seen as a little less than helpful <g>. So if you come across a category [[Category:Pie recipes]] for example you need to put |{{PAGENAME}} (use copy and paste) between the "s" at the end and the double brackets (]]). I've just done Cookbook:Rhubarb Pie so feel free to see what it looks like in the category section - I get all my best ideas from copying others! And the comment above is coreect about quarts - he beat me to it. Regards --Herby talk thyme 14:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hotkeys

You VfD'd this one but it was not on the VfD page. Rather than fix it I've speedy'd it but feel free to change it if you want to - don't see at as a controversial page - all the best --Herby talk thyme 13:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding categories

Hi, on Cookbook:Swedish Chocolate Balls, you added a category. You did it incorrectly, however. Unlink normal wiki links, the piped section of a category link defines an alternate sort key; the text by which the article will be sorted in the category listing. So [[Category:Recipes_with_metric_units|Metric Recipes]] will sort the page under "M" from "Metric Recipes". You should instead just do [[Category:Recipes_with_metric_units]] or [[Category:Recipes_with_metric_units|{{PAGENAME}}]] if you must. Kellen T 13:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

In fact, the first recommendation is bad too, Kellen, as it will file everything under "C" for Cookbook. The second recommendation is the appropriate one. (Pardon me joining in, I'm still watching this page after adding a comment recently) --Webaware 06:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm aware of that now. The thing I'm using from now on is [[Category:Recipes_with_metric_units|{{PAGENAME}}]]. I'll change any that are showing in the wrong area as soon as I get chance Xania 12:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Browsers

Don't suppose you like Firefox? I'm an Opera user but FF can be made to work very like Opera and runs some very useful scripts for both editing & patrolling. Cheers --Herby talk thyme 16:26, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In case you miss it!

Take a look at this maybe Wikibooks:Staff_lounge#BOTM_and_COTM.2C_december, I'm sure you could help tho I realise that you may be busy which is fine - cheers --Herby talk thyme 19:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikijunior Languages/Manx Gaelic

Meant to say before - nice work Cheers --Herby talk thyme 14:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

and meant to get back to you - so are you Manx or Irish? I've not been to the Isle of Man (would like to) but the Ireland I've seen I loved --Herby talk thyme 12:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I guess around folks here Manx would be fairly unknown to say the least. As I said, not been there but my partner says she loved it when she visited as a child (she's from up north!). Good catch on Ada Programming/Keywords, I do tend to strip any web addresses off them given that speedy does mean speedy (!) but then I'm prejudiced against spammers. All the best --Herby talk thyme 13:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcomes

I know - I'm being picky but it does suggest that folk should have a few edits before they are welcomed (& you are obviously less suspicious about someone who appears to be called "online porn" than I am <g>). However - thanks a lot for the support - cheers --Herby talk thyme 19:44, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

OK a touch sensitive from todays vandal! Firstly I was only looking at what it said on the template page. There seem to be loads of people registering and few editing - I guess I'd wait but place this query in the staff lounge maybe (particularly as Johnny has a view - I'll probably go with the majority). I read "online pawan" as porn! Me I guess. All the best --Herby talk thyme 20:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mail

You have some <g> --Herby talk thyme 13:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bit wet for the garden!

Wikibooks:Requests for adminship#Xania .28talk .7C email .7C contribs .7C logs.29. Hope you will accept, all the best --Herby talk thyme 13:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The staff

Go read Wikibooks:Wikiproject on Help Pages it was supposed to be constructive - enough, too long a dat I'm gone --Herby talk thyme 19:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for pointing out this book. Although I want to develop one on Wikijunior, maybe I could reference to this. While reading your userpage I read that you were asked to be an admin and would like to know if you could help me. You see, Wikijunior has an acceptance queue that seldom has viewers so if you could think a policy to speed this process I would be very greatful. --Herraotic 20:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I need advice on whether I should immediately separate the Wikijunior_Alphabet book into individual pages without the author's permission? --Herraotic 21:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
This may seem to be a trivial question but as no one else seems to be active on Wikibooks, to add a page to the book Wikijunior Alphabet would I just search for Alphabet/A and then create page? --Herraotic 21:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice! --Herraotic 22:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
It was me that tagged it with speedy delete, I just used "it did not pass the candidate queue" for an excuse, I was just going to write it later on wikibooks. Note that I mean later as in a couple of months so there is no reason to move the book rather to delete it. Thanks for checking though. --Herraotic 16:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help

After searching across Wikibooks help pages I couldn't find how to make an information box at the top right-hand corner of a module similar to Ada Programming. Even after looking at the contents of the page using the edit tool I could not extract the text to implement the information box, I would be grateful if you could tell me how to create it. --Herraotic 21:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

In the top right-hand corner of the following web page Ada Programming there are four significant emblems, development stages, infobox, PDF and department. I would like to know how to implement those. --Herraotic 22:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My RfA

Just wanted to say thanks for the support. If I can help you in any way let me know. I hope we will be making mistakes together soon (only had the toys one day and needed DL to help me out!) --Herby talk thyme 18:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slow speedies

OK I'll stop knocking the admins now - some are not as easy as I thought! However if you see one that bugs you feel free to try me before VfD'ing it and I'll look at it. Cheers --Herby talk thyme 11:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spam

I know - but look an the actual page - it is mostly spam! I blocked the user immediately but it seemed a bit harsh given what is on the main page? --Herby talk thyme 20:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Believe me there are some appalling pages here that are mostly links but with no policy and no interest in one...! That said I tend to removed most of what I see but as the actual page had so much I felt it was kind of a double standard --Herby talk thyme 20:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EL stuff

(x posted - Xania, Webaware & Iamunknown)

Following exchanges on this subject feel free to look at User:Herbythyme/poss el policy and contribute if you like. Unlikely to make policy but you never know we may get a guideline out of it if we can build up some interest.

Equally User:Herbythyme/Over EL pages contains some of my favourite pages! And w:wp:spamhole is interesting. Regards --Herby talk thyme 13:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drums

Good work - cheers --Herby talk thyme 20:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandal

Johnny beat me - cheers --Herby talk thyme 14:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] .js

Not good with opera I'm afraid (great with FF tho!). Replied but meant to say - feel free to vote for my bot! (RfA) cheers --Herby talk thyme 14:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I was a long time opera user but FF is gradually getting to me and the script stuff does makes some jobs easier, particularly live preview. Bot - yes/no - read within focus comments is one point - I guess it is a bot account which means on RC you can exclude it (i've run it at 10 pages per min edited so it clogs things up) also cos I'm running it on my account it has my rights which some might take issue with. And it can be run on auto in which case I guess it would be a bot --Herby talk thyme 14:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sysop

You have received a number of additional votes, and you are now a sysop. Congratulations. You have a number of new useful tools at your disposal. If you have any questions, you can ask me a question at any time, or you can ask any of the other active admins. With admin tools, it is generally better not to do something if you arent sure about it. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 15:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations - now you can do your share <g> - let me know if I can help --Herby talk thyme 15:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Attention

It seems the request page could use tidying so that it is more readable and concise. It also seems there is a lot of good information there and suggestions that it would be a shame if they are lost. It appears that there could be some way to keep this information without comprising the readability of the page. Do you have any ideas how this could be remedied without creating a lot of extra pages?--Remi0o 21:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requests

I am going to keep it on one page. And I will make it elegant and readable, on one page. Let me try it, and if you don't like it, then you can revert or do it yourself.

[edit]  ??

Magick ...??? Cheers --Herby talk thyme 17:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I guess if remote viewing & Future are ok this is too - cheers --Herby talk thyme 18:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shaving

I guess you are right - I probably would have been better to re-write it some. I'll self revert but won't re-write for now as I'm book deleting!! Thanks for noticing --Herby talk thyme 19:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move

Think you needs sysop on move not the lower one (that is what the others have done). Cheers --Herby talk thyme 13:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jersey Cow

I noticed you blocked Jersey Cow. I think it may have been premature, since they haven't actually vandalized anything yet today and I don't think we're suppose to block for past issues. If I understand things right, blocking is generally meant to deal with user disruption and if a user is no longer being disruptful, than that means previous blocks may have successfully deter the user from continue to be disruptive.

I could be wrong though, so I'm not suggesting you or I should unblock them, just thought I would mension it as possibly useful information. Might perhaps be worth seeking the opinion of other people. --darkYin yang.svglama 02:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

In passing I complete agree with your action - possibly/probably caught one early. I'd get Derbeth or Whiteknight to checkuser Jersey cow --Herby talk thyme 10:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes it's ok I said I agree with you! --Herby talk thyme 11:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I blocked Jersey Cow for vandalism to Wikibooks:Requested_books and not because of the users comments on the Vandalism in Progress page. Please see their contribution list and tell me if I was right to block them. It was only a small mumfum message but I thought an infinite block was right because this seemed to be the pattern in the block log for mumfum attacks. Xania 10:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes I saw user contributions and there was only two contributions, neither looked perticularly like vandalism to me. Its true that a book on mumfum isn't approperiate for Wikibooks, but I find it hard requesting such a book as being vandalism in itself when placed in the approperiate place as it was, since thats the page to do it. I don't really know whether you were right or wrong to block them, I wasn't trying to judge your action, rather just giving some input on my understanding of when to block or not. A short discussion I had yesterday, just to get an idea of where others might stand on this issue (so I understand things better myself), suggests that you did the right thing by blocking them, since they have a history of vandalism and showed themselvies to be that vandal and stopped them before they could do any real damage. My concern was with whether blocking a potenial vandal before vandalizing again is enough reason to block or if its better to wait until after they vandalized again before doing so, in order to encourage people to contribute to the community and only block to discourage being disruptive. --darkYin yang.svglama 14:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry!

Ok I am but after the run in I had with Swift I wanted to delete that one - I promise not to move so fast for any others you want - cheers --Herby talk thyme 11:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template talk:Main Page introduction

Hi, thanks for your support on Template talk:Main Page introduction. Please see my new comment there. Cheers, Unforgettableid 23:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] see Template talk:Main Page introduction

Cheers, Unforgettableid 00:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VfDs

If you want to play/practice Wikibooks:Votes_for_deletion#Neopets is pretty much ready to close as delete (I keep away!). If you do decide to practice deleting DON'T do what I did first time!! When it's a book you need to make sure you get all pages, talk pages, categories, templates etc etc --Herby talk thyme 17:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

If you are in that frame of mind SimCity needs deleting - not got a chunk of time for now for doing it, if not - no worries - cheers --Herby talk thyme 18:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikibooks Newsletter, Volume 1

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04:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Enjoy the break

Have a great time - cheers --Herby talk thyme 07:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

And hope the break was good - welcome back --Herby talk thyme 16:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My nomination for adminship

Xania, thank you very much for taking the time to comment on and support Whiteknight's nomination to promote me to adminship. As you will see at WB:RFA, I have declined that nomination for reasons spelled out in the Discussion section. I appreciate your support. Cheers, Iamunknown 01:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transwiki:List of hello world programs

See w:Ook.

Ook is an esoterc programming language.

Maybe is the code of User:84.230.119.185 correct.

(Then is the question, how much seen it makes to have an example in every esoteric programming language)

-- MichaelFrey 13:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wishes!

Good ones for you and those you care about for 2007 - regards --Herby talk thyme 17:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VfD

Now who's being hasty <g> (but thanks - I hate doing as many as I do) regards --Herby talk thyme 16:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

the closing (which I appreciate). I'll get back to the being "hasty" later (I'm at work!) --Herby talk thyme 16:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Just had to get a bit of humour in about the "rush" to delete!! I really would welcome some backup in this area no one else seems to want to do it. I read on WP that in closing it is not just a case of the number of votes but the quality of arguments too - seems like a good thought to me. All the best --Herby talk thyme 19:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
  • reset

BTW I think I agree with your thoughts about the staff lounge (tho dealing with it will be something else). If you haven't seen it WB:RFC may help shift some stuff away? Cheers --Herby talk thyme 20:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Panic

He is unblocked. Bed for now - catch you tomorrow. Watch and take care, best --Herby talk thyme 22:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Programming/Learn By Example

I really hate to be a weiner, but couldn't we give this book just a bit longer before deleting?? I'd vote keep.....I know it's closed, but honestly, I think it has potential! Buddpaul 02:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


I do fully share the above comment and I think it has potential, and I 'll contribute to it ! Please keep it alive --npettiaux 11:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I have noted your comment. I'll try to work on the Learn by example as soon as I can but I am not sure I can before Friday afternoon. --npettiauxtalk 21:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Closing VfD

Personally I agree with you but Swift got a mite stroppy when I closed one early. I think you will find 7 days mentioned somewhere. It was just a friendly comment - enough trouble around without adding to it - best --Herby talk thyme 13:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] modyfing for copying learn by examples

I would like to know what you would consider a necesity to keep learn by examples that I find useful. Thanks. Entrezvotreformuleici

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for that Xania

[edit] Open proxies

A point of view I wasn't aware of, interests me and I respect - thanks for sharing. If I don't catch you - hope the trip goes well - regards --Herby talk thyme 21:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Vandal

Hi Xania - I would have agreed with your 1 week block, but after looking at the contributions of our last two vandals (see Special:Contributions/Bo Dorku and Special:Contributions/Wilhelm Dorku). I decided that an indef block would be more appropriate. If you feel that it might have been too harsh feel free to change it. : ) --Az1568 (Talk) 01:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hope the move goes well

Says it all - all the best --Herby talk thyme 11:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitration

Please inform yourself of all the discussion here before you incorrectly label decisions and actions. Nothing, and I repeat nothing, about my decision had to do with IRC. I have stated this several times over the past few days. I have rarely if ever even used IRC. No arbitrator was here to even be ignored and many more users were hurt than you seem to think were. It's amazing several of the users Panic disrespected aren't permanently gone, even though some are now. Your disapproval of the actions taken can be applied to creating an official process for handling future arbitrations over at Wikibooks:Resolving disputes. -withinfocus 00:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A discussion which was not held on IRC

You may interested in a post on my user page. I noticed Whiteknight post a note to Rob asking him to stop the arbitration [1] to which I replied Whiteknight should e-mail Rob [2]. He responded on my talk page that he was very agitated and would not for a while, but solicited my opinion, noting that he and I tend to disagree on almost every subject. [3]. I replied with (what I consider) three significant points: that I did not consider Rob's actions reprehensible, but a good-faith effort to solve a problem; that I would attempt to contact Rob before any action was made; and that I would ban Panic if it were my choice [4]. Rob was not contacted prior to the block, but you will notice that I was at least one community member who was in support of the block. --Iamunknown 03:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Response

I left a response on Withinfocus's talk page to a post that you made. Let's try to find a productive solution to this whole matter, before you make threats about leaving this project. Nobody wants anybody to leave! --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 05:34, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Staff lounge post

Thanks for your reply to my post on the staff lounge, I didn't think anybody was going to reply to it. I think that there are a couple points that are worth some clarification/discussion. First off, the current (or recently past) arbitration was started despite several voiced objections. I know that I was strongly against the arbitration, and my comments were dismissed and ignored. I will have to look back through my records and see who else objected to it, before I make any claims on the matter.

User:SBJohnny quit the arbitration early after voicing several complaints about the process. User:Robert Horning was absent from the discussion for over two weeks without any indication of when he would return, or what his intentions were on the matter. We could not, in good conscience, allow the process to stay open and undecided forever.

6 months may be too long a block, but if we as a community decide to reduce the sentence within the next two weeks, Panic might be allowed to return in that timeframe. I doubt highly that Rob will tell us what his conclusion would have been had the arbitration continued (although I would certainly be interested to know). I know that my opinion on the matter was that Panic should have been unblocked and placed on some sort of "probation" until things cooled back down. User:Withinfocus took a more hardlined approach, which I don't necessarily disagree with. If I may ask, if you had been arbiter, what decision would you have made? --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 16:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I agree with you on almost all points: solutions to disputes should be constructive, and everything is always reversible. I had offered panic a "deal" that he not be punished except for some kind of probationary period like the one you described. He did refuse the offer (although I doubt he was considering this alternative), and when the arbitration ended, this happened instead. I would be in favor of a reduction of sentence from a 6 month ban to a 1 month probationary period (or longer, as needed). We would need some kind of concrete guidelines to follow, however, as panic still does not accept any wrong doing on his part. It is difficult to ask a person to "be more nice", when they think they are being perfectly nice already. I think it is likely that other people would agree to this plan.
Considering my involvement in the issue, my motives would be suspect if I proposed this plan. If you would like to start the discussion on it, however, you will have my support. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 22:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Post-arbitration-decision "coaching"

Considering all the troubles that have come out of the final decision about Panic, I've decided to get involved again to see if there's a way of re-integrating him into the community. My approach will be to engage in calm dialog with him, as a "coach". You can see the beginning of this here. My intent is to get to a point where he makes it clear that he (1) understands the problem, (2) will try to avoid the problem in the future, (3) will make a commitment to not getting into trouble again, and (4) will understand that we will prevent him from causing further problems. I've made a more formal proposal of this on Matt's talk page, since he is de facto the current arbitrator, and therefore the person in charge.

I must ask you to stay out of this for now (especially during the first step), unless you feel that I'm being horribly unfair. Panic needs to focus on this first point, and having more than one person to talk to will (in my opinion) just spur him into playing us off one another. He needs to look at his own behavior in an objective way, and I'm going to do my best to help him in that task.

I should point out now that while step 4 might seem harsh and threatening, it's meant to be the opposite. If further blocks are performed, I'd like these to be "time outs", rather than punitive measures... little breaks where he is given time to rethink and explain. I know this guy a bit now, and I know he likes to see how far he can push any envelope. The point is to allow no games. I strongly suggest that his block be considered indefinite until he agrees to get along, and that he should not be threatened with an infinite block unless he really games this system.

This might be a wasted effort, but it's worth a shot. I'm asking for your support. --SB_Johnny | talk 22:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unblocking Panic

Thank you for being bold and changing the block time frame for Panic. At this point I don't see the need (as I was going to, BTW) try to involve the WMF board of trustees in this matter. I felt that the six month user block was very excessive, and considering that Whiteknight on my user talk page (but contradicted on your user talk page) was threating to wheel war with me and potentially block my account if I tried to reduce this or remove the block.

What I would still like to do, essentially, is vacate the "arbitration decision" and try to come up with a much more realistic set of "probationary" restrictions on Panic. Perhaps suggesting that he stay away from the C++ Programming Wikibook (apparently the primary source of objections here) for a set period of time, but even that is not strictly necessary.

Based on comments Panic has made in some places (such as Wikibooks:Staff lounge/Archive 29#Discussion on consensus) he is still learning a bit on how to work with Wikimedia projects and is merely a bit abraisive, and needs to be educated a little bit about netiquitte. I'll say more on the Staff Lounge about this issue. --Rob Horning 13:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I find your action extremely unwarranted and offensive. Choosing two weeks says that Panic should be punished due to his original offenses, something that has expanded to be something far greater than when that two-week period was originally chosen. I originally planned on setting his block to indefinite so a choice could be made on how to handle this and then warning you since this is definitely not a be bold issue. Rob should know that block wars are not something to be bold about. What you did, reverting a block without even gaining any sort of consensus on it, can be an extremely dangerous operation. Even though you might think otherwise, I still took the input of many people in making my decision. Your personal feelings should not change a block because you are given the right to block from the community, not yourself. Six months was in essence meant to be an "indefinite" period so that people could calm down and move on for a while but now there's no point to blocking at all since this action of yours has been established. It would take longer than two weeks to even get a solution made up on how to handle this, so your block is essentially just inconveniencing Panic. It's either indefinite or nothing, and so I made it nothing. He's unblocked now and so I'm sure we'll all get lots more messages on our talk pages from him and others, but I don't want to be involved with this issue any longer. I was fine until this, but your action has made all my discussion up until now without utility. The rest of you can figure out a solution to this because now my actions have been undone and now I'm done. -withinfocus 13:51, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I understand this. I just can't understand why a 6 month block was given. Are we saying that if someone takes a dispute to arbitration and loses then their punishment should be increased? If so then I disagree. I'm not trying to start a block war. If someone else wishes to override me and reblock him for 6 months then they can - I will not perform that action again. I think everyone has let their personal feelings get too involved in this situation. The issue with Panic concerns a conflict of opinion over a Wikibook book and excessive bans (in my opinion) should never be used for users unless they are extreme vandal accounts - I'm sure we all agree that Panic is not a vandal even if we don't like his decisions. You are very welcome to suggest my deselection as admin or to revert my actions but I still feel that this 'solution' is in keeping with what the 'crime' deserves and the views of most people. I am replying on my talk page so that this discussion can be kept together. Xania Flag of Poland 2.svgtalk 16:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Xania. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. --SB_Johnny | talk 16:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
The arbitration turned into much more than the discussion of a two-week block due to Panic's accusations of great abuse of Johnny's admin powers and several others' edits in the disputed areas. Panic built up the idea that he did nothing wrong and made himself to look like an incredibly uncivil and nasty person to work with. Therefore, I felt an extended period beyond two weeks would be useful and a long enough period that people could sufficiently forget the past disagreement and be better editors over time. Johnny's (if modified) approach of indefinite suspension until Panic admits to the problems he has is a more friendly approach yet much more work. His decision to work on it is his issue. You shouldn't have overridden a block but I don't think that makes you de-sysoppable since you are not being truly malicious (even if I strongly disagree with your actions). I, Whiteknight, and others are moving on and leaving this to Johnny. Let's work on dispute resolution and not this specific case. -withinfocus 16:55, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Xania, if there ends up being strong majority support for what I'm trying to do with him, will you refrain from unblocking without discussing it first? --SB_Johnny | talk 17:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
No problem SB_Johnny! I don't think you need 100% to go forward with what you suggested and so I will observe and respect whatever outcome you reach if the majority wish you to do this. Good luck! Xania Flag of Poland 2.svgtalk 20:52, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitration Committees

I am puzzled, you opposed a standing arbitration committee by saying admins could come together on an ad hoc basis then you opposed the ad hoc committee. Are you sure you meant "no" to the ad hoc committee? RobinH 15:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to put in a quick note here in response to your post on User talk:RobinH. I think that this Panic issue has dragged on far long enough, and further attempts to stir the pot are unnecessary. SBJohnny wants to find a way to "reform" panic, or with better terminology to "help guide" panic, then that's fine. Going back to the drawing board and starting a new arbitration, or restarting the old arbitration (especially considering that we still dont have a policy on the matter) is just a waste of time, and unfair harassment of Panic. Johnny had enough support to try his plan out, and i think the rest of us all need to just step back from the situation and prevent another firestorm. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dude!!!

Xania, if you have something negative to say about something, please try to look into the background a bit. I agree with what you're saying "on principle", but I'm getting the distinct impression that you're saying what you're saying exclusively "on principle", rather than on the assumption of good faith or an understanding of the situation.

I mean no harm to Panic, and while I doubt the feeling is mutual I consider him a friend and would miss him if he were permanently gone. The only alternative offered so far is a Wikipedia-style "community ban", and I really don't want to go there because I know what the result would be. --SB_Johnny | talk 23:36, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

To see you're feeling like this. I sincerely hope that it is not to do with my involvement. In a perfect world it would not be like this and maybe we should look at this for the future but for now I think this needs resolving for the sake of the community here. --Herby talk thyme 09:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Panic

My suggestion to you would be to stop participating in the large argument now developing at the Staff Lounge. Your past actions regarding Panic has made you incredibly biased on the matter. I too will be staying out of the discussion (subtracting my one comment on the matter) and did not show either my support or opposition to Johnny's proposal. Your recent remarks have been incredibly uninformed (and furthermore I believe most all of your discussion on the issue has been quite incorrect) and spreading such things need to stop. Your blocking actions on Panic without any prior discussion should alone be more than enough to persuade you to cease commenting. Although I have utmost confidence in my actions and do not want to currently personally pursue investigations into your block, further escalating this and now getting into a blocking war with another user here will likely bring about serious problems with your adminship rights. Thanks. -withinfocus 18:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not asking him to take the blame (much less apologize), only to accept his part in the trouble. He can't really promise not to do this later if he refuses to see why people have interepreted his actions and words as they do, if you see what I mean. The 4 conflicts that I know of are related to editorial control... in one case he made a fork because he could not cooperate with the other authors, since then it's been "defending" the book from changes made by others.
The block doesn't make us look half as silly as tolerating that sort of nonsense does. He just needs to agree to work with others, or at least allow others to work.
BTW the "silly" thing was saying I'm the only person he's had conflicts with. I'm not, and in fact I'm only involved because the trouble was brought to my attention by another third party. He also knows quite well that the GFDL issue about the author's page was only a minor part of his disputes with other users.
I don't think this will go on much longer, please be patient for a while (even if the while is longer than anyone wants it to be). I just want to make sure it's over when it's over, bacause every time I thought it was in the past, it came right back up again. --SB_Johnny | talk 00:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Staff lounge

I'm just happy people like it. We can certainly do something about the archives, if that's what people want. I dont think it looks so bad, because it keeps the page evenly divided into two columns. Let's start a discussion for what people want to do with the archives. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 23:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Panic2k4 sockpuppet block/Comment regarding Sockpuppets on Wikibooks English

I do not know the nature of the dispute and decided to provide my outside opinion. It is intended to be my opinions/advice in the matter. Nothing more.

From what I understand, User:Panic2k4 was blocked and his/her sockpuppets continue to edit during the duration of his/her block. There has been checkuser evidence and confessions to back this sockpuppet allegation. However because of the absence of a policy on wikibooks some people feel the block of sockpuppets is unwaranted.

I am a commons admin, and we too do not have a policy on sockpuppets on commons. However aggressive sockpuppets are blocked on commons left right regardless of the absence of a policy to do so. There is no point in having a checkuser on wikibooks if such sockpuppets are not to be blocked.

--Cool Cat 16:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, You left me a comment on my talk page (user: Xania) over on Wikibooks about sockpuppets created by the, currently, banned user Panic. Thanks for your comments. The issue with Panic isn't really about his sockpuppets and he has made it very clear that they were created by him. I think he was trying to prove a point (not sure what the point is) and also trying to be helpful (he did a lot of tidy up tasks with these puppets). Xania Flag of Poland 2.svgtalk 21:22, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Still sockpuppets should not be used to evade blocks regardless of the intent. No? --Cool Cat 21:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Freakout warning

Before you freaked out I reverted the action this is not the best time to get into trouble :), (I had done it for you but it could be taken as abusive, some people are more strict that others), so, please consider moving your vote on the Wikibooks:Staff_lounge/Technical_Chat#Wikijunior_Namespace next to mine, I feel lowly there and would be best if we all stand together as a show the support for the request, txs... (try posting or remembering other users to do the same) --Panic 07:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VfD closing

Is not based on numerical votes but the arguments. There was consensus that the article as it stood was unacceptable - that is why I stated I would close it as delete unless it was rewritten - it was rewritten, not perfect but much better. If you really don't agree I will happily re-open it. I never close a VfD simply on the number of votes --Herby talk thyme 12:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Speaking French on the phone

Hello. If you are interrested on making a course on how to talk into French on the phone, perhaps http://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/N%C3%A9erlandais_:_le_t%C3%A9l%C3%A9phone_:_actes_de_communications_:_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9ralit%C3%A9s would interrest you. I do not know where to add that on the French course, I am not very familiar with this wikibook. Hope I do not annoy you--Oualmakran Youssef 14:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opinion requested

Am I yet again missing something ?!?

Take a look at [this edits, below label Line 134] of a discussion occurring in Wikibooks_talk:What_is_Wikibooks/Unstable. If you need the archives to provide an opinion I have the links but my statements are correct. --Panic 17:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

On the consensus discussion it seems that we share common points, have you taken a look on the essay I have incorporated several of your arguments (and others to to make it more clear), if you can provide a ratio of your concordance with it that would be helpful to me. txs . --Panic 20:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Wow! That was a fast welcome. Thanks --Bth 20:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coming to my defense

I have appreciated your efforts to come to a civil discussion here on Wikibooks, even if there were some arrows that have been pointed to your back as well. I am very disappointed with the tone that this project has reached as of the last couple of months, with assumptions of bad faith and other disruptive behavior.

I also feel that some individuals on this project have openly tried to kick me off, and you know what? They have been successful. I may come back and help out, but not until some of the current hot heads are brought under control. This may include Panic, but it will also include those who are seemingly antagonizing him as well.

I have tried to mend fences and to try to come to an understanding with several individuals, but nearly everything I say now, even if as innocent as "the sky is blue and the grass is green" is now subjected to review and contempt. Mainly because I'm perceived as somebody opposing their viewpoint. If you need somebody to back you up morally for your efforts here on Wikibooks, I certainly can do that. I would hope that Wikibooks can succeed, and I hope it will someday. I also have patience to stay low for awhile and not try to get involved with the current politcal manuverings of a certain block of users any more, even if I strongly disagree with their actions.

Perhaps it is time I concentrate on content development anyway and let the rest of Wikibooks go to heck and gone. If you could encourage SB_Johnny to delete pages like this that I find not only offensive but downright antagonistic, it would be appreciated. I know you are reading this Johnny, and you are welcome to voice your opinion here as well if you care. I just don't care to talk to you directly any more if this is indeed your attitude toward me.

Healthy dialog can and should take place, but far too many people are accused of being a troll when that is hardly the case. And a distinct lack of patience is also quite clear, including those who would delete things like Wikiversity and some of the stubs on this project. I know personality conflicts do come up, and often it is better to disengage rather than to push the fight up to another level. Life is too short to really make that many enemies.

I'm also going to be very busy over the next couple of weeks anyway as I'm on a new sales campaign for a start-up business I'm doing. It will be very exciting if it succeeds, and no, it has nothing to do with Wikibooks or book publishing. I hope that I can use some of the contacts from this business to help put together something really cool that will have a long term benefit to Wikibooks as well, but that is more than a year away or more. I know this is nebulous, but I want you to know that I still care for this project and will try in my own way to see that it can succeed. --Rob Horning 16:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Actually....

I really do think the "user conduct RFC" process could be good for our project, because a lot gets said behind the backs of others, when it would really be more constructive if it were said openly. I'd actually like it if the RFC template was designed in a way so that someone could open one for themselves if they were feeling unsure about their contributions... I personally would appreciate some constructive criticism, because I often doubt myself! --SB_Johnny | talk 22:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WIW vote

I was wondering if you would be willing to revisit and hopefully even reconsider your vote for the new WIW proposal. I dont think anybody is hiding behind the excuse that "we were told to remove the videogame guides" anymore. I think the sad fact is that even when they were accepted here the videogame guides were a fringe element, acceptable mostly because of ambiguity in policy. Wikibooks was never the "perfect place" to keep these guides, and many authors felt stress because of that. We did have a bookshelf devoted to them, but there were many authors here who felt they did not belong and the environment was at least a little hostile.

Compared to wikibooks not being the perfect place, I would argue that strategywiki is perfect for these guides. Even though our project might benefit from the inclusion of encyclopedia articles or course materials, we regularly transwiki those to wikipedia and wikiversity, respectively. It's not that we don't want them so much as it is that there are better places for them. A videogame strategy guide here has less chance to succeed, and will attract a smaller audience then a guide posted at strategy wiki. Inclusion of any additional types of materials would likely have some effect on our membership, but history has shown that comparatively few people left wikibooks when the majority of videogame guides left wikibooks for strategy wiki. The result of this is that several previous wikibookians are members at strategy wiki, and a few of them still work to manage transwikis from here to there.

I don't want to ignore the videogame issue entirely, but considering the history i really feel like it's a ship that has already sailed. I think it would be a big shame to prevent forward progress on this project because of a situation that is basically already over. Even if we do decide to allow videogame guides at this point, you really have to ask yourself how many guides will be created here, and how many will stay here when they learn about better places such as strategywiki. I think that the number would be very small. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 15:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to put any kind of pressure on you, and I certainly don't want to be accusing of trying to manipulate people. The atmosphere around here is certainly ripe for such accusations, I think. I certainly see a large amount of good in this proposal, and I would hate to see it be completely lost. If you don't want to change your vote that's completely fine, but I am really glad to hear that you will reconsider. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick comment, I may be incorrect, but since the strategy wiki is under the GFDL, wouldn't basically anyone be able to take that content and use it\redistribute it for non-commercial purposes if the desire arose? (assuming that proper attribution is given and all that)[This is in response to your statement on WK's page]. Of course I'm not exactly keen on their image use policy (or lack thereof) but the same issues would occur here with the images, and even more so now that the new statement has been released by WMF regarding fair use [I am of the opinion that such a use would not qualify under their statement]. I'd say let them deal with that stuff :). Of course, I understand the reasoning behind the arguments that VG guides should be on here as well, and I respect the viewpoint, I just agree with WK that things'll be better off if we let them go where there'll be no argument. Regards Mattb112885 (talk) 21:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] P&G discussions

I'm not sure how you haven't known about WIW/Unstable before it came to a vote, it has been mentioned on multiple occasions on the staff lounge and its even listed on staff lounge right now for some time I believe. I'm not sure what more can be done to make people aware of discussions thats going on. It seems like another admin's idea of listing the vote on the watchlist may have worked some. Things can be announced, but if nobody is looking, knows where to look, can't find it entwined with other discussions going on, etc. not sure what else could be done to encourage more community involvement in building a consensus. I have no idea if its just an disorganization issue, if people are just procrastinating, or if most people simply aren't interested in such things.

I recently created a vote template, along with a new category, for proposed policies and guidelines to try to introduce another means of organizing policies and guidelines a little more, since Robert brought up how Wikibooks use to using voting pages and how much more organized things use to be when they were used. However there still seems to be some work that needs done to try to make it easier for people to know whats being discussed or not needs to be discussed. --darkYin yang.svglama 18:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The WIW vote is mentioned on the bulletin board as well, and it has come up on the staff lounge several times over the last several months of development. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 22:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Goats

Believe it or not, Johnny owns a goat. In fact i would suspect his account had been hacked if he didn't write a book about them. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 21:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Heh, yeah, I'm writing about goats. I have one milking goat now, getting 3 more over the next few weeks. more "fodder" for v:School:Agriculture :P.

[edit] What is Wikijunior

What is Wikijunior" is proposed as a policy and has been included on the Wikibooks Policies and Guidelines Voting page. Please take time to comment and express your opinion in the referendum.

[edit] Original research

I noticed that you felt that the Consciousness studies book was original research. There is no doubt that the book occupies a new niche in the literature on consciousness because it attempts to bridge the gap between philosophy and neuroscience. The most difficult theoretical problem confronting the neurophysiologist is how we acquire a unified view, how do two eyes with different images in each and two ears with data that does not naturally overlie the world give rise to our experience. This physiological problem is well known and has been called the "binding problem", the problem of "rivalries" and, most recently and usefully, the problem of "phenomenal consciousness". There are some philosophers who believe that phenomenal consciousness does not exist, as there are some scientists who do not believe that global warming is man-made, but this would not be a reason for banning the book as original research.

Is the book original research? "Original research refers to unproven facts and to theories that have not been subject to peer review." (Wikibooks:Original research). At the detailed level the various arguments are reported as a succession of sections and every section is heavily supported by references and a profusion of direct quotations from other work that present both sides of the various arguments. Is that original research? This leaves the overall question of whether a book on a niche that has not been covered before is "original research". It is obviously original, I know of no other book that collects together the literature on phenomenal consciousness.

The charge of "original research" is probably the most serious charge that can be raised against a Wikibook and should really be defended or withdrawn. RobinH 09:18, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The "vote"

My post on the staff lounge is definately not a "vote". I'm asking what people's opinions are, and I am also asking for people to describe their opinions. A vote has an outcome, this does not. There will be no result, other then being able to say that there is consensus one way or the other. If you read the decision making policy, matters on wikibooks shouldnt be decided by votes anyway. What I'm trying on the staff lounge is a two-pronged attack: we use the fancy templates to give a "my opinion in a nutshell" so we have a nice graphical measure of the communitie's opinions, and we have a section below that for comments where people can explain themselves. In reality, the explanations the most important part of the whole process. --Whiteknight (talk) 20:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Close What is Wikijunior discussion.

I believe that consensus has been reached. I do not want to close it myself since I proposed it. Can you review and see if you feel it's appropriate to close? --xixtas talk 12:28, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey Xania

I actually have an account, I just forgot to login, thanks for the welcome though :). 76.195.234.36 22:53, 19 May 2007 (UTC) (User:Mattb112885)

[edit] Odio! Odio!

¡Odio la ley!!! ¡Luché la ley, la ley ganada!!! ¡Dado del dios de mayo del cáncer de pulmón!! ¡Fui prohibido por el comité de arbitraje del Wikipedia español!! ¡Xania/Archive_1 hedores de heces!! --CT1010 22:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] more idiots to block

Hi Xania, will you also please block the monkey-headed user texasguy2009? thanks! --Blueknight 19:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

DOn't just block him for 2 weeks! HELLO! This is the IP of the 3hitsallday and the other you just blocked infinite! Kick him out infinite this IP too! I decide it because I'm the boss. (on nn wikipedia, i'm Rodelero- please ask the admins there if they are thinking I do a goo job:P )thanks. --Blueknight 19:59, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trolls!

Good catch there - couple of IPs blocked for a bit now. Regards --Herby talk thyme 15:26, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re-sorting English wikibooks

Thanks for your input on the languages bookshelf there, Xania. A couple of us (too few) are still hammering out details regarding how best to reorganise the bookshelf and its associated template (see the talk page if your haven't already), and anything you'd like to contribute to the discussion would be welcome. To synthesise, the main idea, which we've decided to implement, is to scrap organisation by language families and order the languages by continents; that's been done for the main list, as you've seen, and similar changes to the template have been requested. Having settled that, the main issue now is what to do about languages with several wikibooks, as in the case of English, notably. What you have done there fits in well with our plans, which are to set up language-specific pages or templates in such cases. The technical details escape me a bit and we're still deciding how to do it, but the end result will be a listing of English books and the incorporation of that list into the languages bookshelf list rather than simply listing each book separately as was the case until now. Your thoughts welcome if you have any to share. Alan --A R King 07:59, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikijunior:World War II

You are listed as either an interested participant or at one time voted for "World War II" for Wikijunior New Book of the Quarter. This message is to let you know that we are starting work on World War II because it was selected for 3rd quarter 2007. --xixtas talk 23:41, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

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