User talk:Swift/Archives/2006

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page.
If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Vandal notification

Thanks for the heads-up, i'm working on it as fast as i can. if you see anything that I miss, let me know. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 19:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. Let me know if I can help. --Swift 19:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I've blocked the 3 accounts that were involved, and reverted all the page moves (so far). I'm going to delete all the obscene redirect pages that were created. The Human Physiology book got hit pretty hard by this wave of vandalism, so if you could just go check that all the pages and talk pages in that book aren't redirecting out into space, I would appreciate it. Other then that, it's just deleting pages at this point. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 19:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, I'll check it out. --Swift 19:22, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Shit, I'd only just started when I was called out for a soccer match. I'll finish later today. --Swift 19:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
It's okay, I got through most of it myself. Thanks for the help though. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Chemical Synthesis VfD

I just wanted to reiterate a few points from the VfD discussion. I don't think that your book is poorly written, and I certainly don't think you are a bad contributor. Every logical part of me is saying that kids shouldnt be buying acetone at walmart and mixing up TATP in their basements. The way the text is written now, I worry that's the kind of activity that we are encouraging: amateurs and children, at home, boiling hydrogen peroxide on the stove. All I want is to see this material directed at a better target audience, so that we aren't encouraging joe-schmoe at home to try this proceedure himself. I hope you didn't take any of my comments too personally. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I never thought your comments harsh or unfair. I recognise your viewpoint and motives as sincere and well intended.
We seem to differ, not so much on the ends, but on the means. I agree that kids shouldn't be mixing explosives in their basements. I disagree, however, that it is our place to ensure that. My mother tounge, Icelandic, has a word, óviti, which literally means un-knower and is used for young children who can't take care of themselves due to their limited mental ability (you keep detergents away from them — those mentally retarded can also be óviti). Basically someone who needs you to think for them.
I see the question being whether it is our task to think for un-knowers. This should be discussed and made a policy.
Just to state it, my oppinion is that it should be left to their parents to deceide which rules to instill in their children. Some parents will fail at their task. Some children may not have learnt to understand the dangers expressed on the synthesis pages even before you put up disclamers. I don't think this is a reason enough for us to padd every sharp corner. Not either that I want to lay broken bottles everywhere.
There are many faces underlying my motivation. Once we've got the voting stuff sorted out, we should put up something on censoring. At that point, I'll try to make a detailed point based on theory and application. If you'd like to engage in a warm-up discussion/debate, I'd be glad to do so.
Again, thanks for the note. I sincerely appreciate the polite gesture. --Swift 21:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Spelling

Sorry about the spelling. Old habits are hard to break, and I find when I am typing quickly, I tend to spell certain words in the same, incorrect way over and over again. One day, when I get around to writing my "spell check bot" (if ever), hopefully I won't have that problem as much. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 16:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

PDF for relativity - thanks

Thanks for fixing this so quickly! RobinH 11:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome! --Swift 21:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Vfd, Template:Danger

I created the template {{Danger}} as a risk warning that you can use on any page that contains dangerous information (like everything that involves making explosives). I'm going to declare the VfD over now, because there is clearly no consensus to delete. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 01:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Interwiki stuff

Yup, I'm game... though I'm a little busy working on books (and wp articles) for a while. --SB_Johnny | talk 23:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

2 3 things you might be interested in

Wikibooks:Request for enabling special:import -- helps make interwiki page moves more efficient.

Talk:Cookbook#Wikipedia_templates -- more about specialised interwiki link templates on wikipedia.

--SB_Johnny | talk 10:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I almost forgot: would you have a look at Wikibooks:Wikibooks for wikipedians? I'm hoping to link to that from a new welcome template. --SB_Johnny | talk 11:42, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! These are, indeed, all interesting. --Swift 09:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Can you please make a comment also... txs

We are discussing GFDL and wikibooks and book communities, rights and what nots in "Call for comments" a future policy could and probably should emerge from that discussion in not only to clarify things to all users.--Panic 17:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I've added my comments at User talk:Panic2k4#Comments by User:Swift. --Swift 09:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

WB:PAG

I agree with your proposal that the guideline/policy categories should be merged. A few months back, wikibooks didn't have any guideline categories at all, and I had to create them along with the necessary templates. It seems I didn't do the most efficient job at it.

Definately make that change, I dont have time today to help out with it, but i should be around later tonight briefly, and much of the morning tomorrow to help out with it. Not that you need alot of help to do this, but it's polite to offer. :) --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 13:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User talk:Whiteknight#Policy and guideline categories --Swift 22:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandal

No problem, can you report him to the local vandal management process page? I'm only familiar with enwiki and enwikiversity. --Draicone 07:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User Talk:Draicone#Good job catching the vandal --Swift 07:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

WB:RFA

I have nominated you for adminship, at WB:RFA. If you accept (and I hope you do), the community will vote on the measure. Pending concensus, you could be made into a sysop here. I have nominated you because you are very helpful, and you are active in the realm of policy. Your request to have an admin alter the text of certain protected policies has demonstrated to me that you have a particular need for adminship tools. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 17:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Both for the compliment and sign of confidence. I had no great aspirations to gain adminship, as you, Johnny, Withinfocus and Derbeth are generally ready and able to help out, but if I can help shoulder the burden, I'm only too happy to do so. Cheers, --Swift 02:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

OOps... need one more vote

One more thing to smooth out the transwiki process... Wikibooks:Request_for_enabling_special:import#Additional_request. We're asking that "Transwiki:" be given namespace status so we can import to it directly. --SB_Johnny | talk 19:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for organizing this! --Swift 21:19, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Moving proposal discussion

You can certainly feel free to move the discussion to a more appropriate location. Just make sure that you post a link at staff lounge to the new discussion. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 21:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User talk:Whiteknight#Moving comments --Swift 04:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Help:Textbook planning

That page is defunct, and I dont think it currently serves a purpose anymore. Perhaps it can just be deleted? I have written an essay on the subject: User:Whiteknight/New Book Guide that I find very helpful (and that I hope other users do too). --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 18:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I was going to have a look at it. If you say it is defunct and has little purpose anymore, then sure, we can consider deleting it. We should have a look at which pages link to it and such before, though. --Swift 18:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Alot of old pages like this, especially pages that were from the beginning of the project when such matters were still being worked out have been kept for historical reasons. Perhaps we should put a note on it that says "This discussion is really friggen old, and don't edit/read it". --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:55, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikibooks:Profanity

I would like to move this one to Wikibooks:Obscenity (changing the words in the text as well), and then move this one to {{policy}} ASAP. Do you have any objections? --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 21:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Replied on Wikibooks talk:Profanity#Not use profanity? --Swift 21:50, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I just wanted to send you a quick message, and see if you have come to some kind of conclusion on this matter? Since you and I are the only ones talking about this policy, I think once we can reach agreement, we can move this to {{policy}}. I think we both can agree that wikibooks does need some kind of policy on inappropriate language, and I would like to see one implemented sooner rather then later. To recap: I am against using the word offensive, but I would be willing to change to the word obscene (or even a combination of "offensive/profane/obscene" in the text, so long as "offensive" is clearly defined). If "obscene" is alright with you, I think we should move forward with it. I would like to point out that wikipedia does use the word Profanity in their policy on the matter. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 19:40, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I went off wiki for a bit. I'm currently semi-travelling and the next leap is coming up I'll probably be away again for a week at the beginning of November.
I'll concede on "offensive" but haven't settled on "profane"/"obscene". I just realized that I should have long ago asked my father and my dear friend Des, the two best sources on the English language that I've come across. I'll go do so now. --Swift 02:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
If you know somebody who can pick their way through all these tricky words, then definately ask them. I'm not in any hurry. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 03:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations

I have just set you sysop flag. I hope you will use you admin tools often, but always with a good reason. If you have any questions about sysop functions, please leave me a message. --Derbeth talk 14:15, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I want to congratulate you as well. I hope that you will be able to use your new abilities to help make wikibooks a better place. There are alot of people around here who you can ask if you have any questions. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 14:23, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Acetone peroxide synthesis

I have proposed the acetone peroxide synthesis for deletion. What do you think? Ewen 14:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Where ya been?

Good to have you back... you had us worried there :). --SB_Johnny | talk 13:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! :-) It's good to be back. I spent a little while travelling, but I'm back now ... for a while, I'm off again in January, but I hope to get a few things done by then. --Swift 14:44, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Be civil (Wikibooks:Votes_for_deletion#Organic_Chemistry.2FAcetone_peroxide_synthesis)

User:Ewen has been warned, and I've asked him to remove his attack-comments from the VfD page. Please refrain from responding in kind, and please do not under any circumstances block him: you are an involved party, and need to stay out of it. --SB_Johnny | talk 18:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm doing my best to restrain myself and though I was doing a fairly good job (especially under the infuriating allogations). Could you please tell me where I've been close to uncivil so that I can retune myself.
I have no intention of using my sysop rights where I am personally involved. I understand you are just trying to avoid clashes, but I'd appreciate a little more faith. I don't think I've been unreasonable thus far.
Thanks, though for watching the civility! I really appreciate that. I was going to ask you or Whiteknight to view the discussion for that respect as I've at times found Ewen to be using somewhat personal attacks in place of rational arguments. --Swift 18:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
On a side note, I just wanted to let you know that even though we have differing opinions on this matter, I still think that you are a valuable contributor here. Please don't take my desire to delete a particular page as any kind of personal offense against you, because that is sincerely not what I intend. i'm glad you are back from your break. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 18:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks WK. I appreciate that. I know you and SB Johnny to be rational and have seen that you don't get personal nor hold grudges. For that reason I'd really like to hear more from you in this debate.
Also, in the PAG reviewing that I plan on (and have partly started) undertaking, I'm wanting to specifically look at censorship. This debate is inevitably going to influence that. --Swift 19:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
You haven't been uncivil at all as far as I have seen. I just know how frustrating that can be, so please just keep biting your tounge, and let me or someone else take your back (as an admin, you need to bite both sides of your tongue, and I do appreciate your gentle way of handling this so far). I haven't decided yet whether to block him for editing without retracting (blanking) those comments first... we'll see how it goes. I'll work on a {{be civil}} template later, since we probably need one. --SB_Johnny | talk 18:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
On a second look, comments like "You're not a commie, are you?" are really inappropriate, though I get the feeling you meant them to be funny. Please remove them. --SB_Johnny | talk 18:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, it was meant as a retorical instrument. In no way was I accusing him of any political leannig. I was using the phrase to refer to the communist accusations in post-WWII America to show him the absurdity of his demand that one rationalize ones interest in the synthesis.
Should I clarify that, or was the comment, even in this light, offensive? I'll apologise if appropriate. I have no interest in offending Ewen. --Swift 19:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict with whiteknight) Nah... see my suggestion on the VfD... Might be best to just strike it all from the record, then you can add your vote again and make a fresh start of it. I'd rather not see that conversation archived as-is. --SB_Johnny | talk 19:15, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't advocate censorship (or I like to think i dont), but I do tend to view with a negative eye things that are controversial and border-line in matters of policy. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 19:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

(reset tabs) "I'll apologise if appropriate. I have no interest in offending Ewen." not needed, he's agreed to blanking too.

Keep in mind that smiley-face emoticons were invented just for assholes like you, eh? :-). (Hope you get the joke here). --SB_Johnny | talk 19:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit conflict...

I removed the sections, but conflicted with your edit. Please feel free to re-add, but you'll probably want to rewrite a bit because the context is gone :). Sorry about that. --SB_Johnny | talk 19:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

VFD

Check the images to make sure nothing links to them. If they aren't being used by any other books, especially if they are unlikely to be reusable (which I assume they all will be), you should be fine to delete them. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 01:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Info

A Wikimedia Administrator's Handbook --Herby talk thyme 09:39, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

SD template

Noticed you've been working on this - last one I just placed has not got an actual date placed - just the code - sorry --Herby talk thyme 11:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I've got some problems with this, subst-ing the time itself works, but not from within the template. I'll take this elsewhere till I get it right. Sorry. --Swift 11:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
No worries let me know if I can help --Herby talk thyme 11:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't suppose you know why I can't "subst:" from whithin a template? From meta:Help:Variable I got the impression that I could. --Swift 11:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
So far from my reading I agree with you - just looking at m:Help:Substitution at pres --Herby talk thyme 11:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
m:Help:Substitution#Delayed_substitution?? --Herby talk thyme 11:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I just saw that. In that case the best timestamp we have is already at the bottom of the page. --Swift 11:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

reset

Hum - & without looking - any other templates got this on so that you can nick it (WP even). Would be good to have there (kinda bugs me that some hang around so long - I know "they aren't really speedy" but nigger poop should have gone!). Gone to WP for a look --Herby talk thyme 12:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm ... what do you mean, exactly? --Swift 12:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm looking at w:Wikipedia:Template_messages/Cleanup for instance but the date seems to be piped there (sorry it's a bit disjointed but I'm at work <g>) - I'll look at some more and see if there is something I can --Herby talk thyme 12:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)copy
w:Template:Cleanup-date worth a look? --Herby talk thyme 12:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
And thanks for clearing the c**p! --Herby talk thyme 12:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I guess we could include the date as an optional parameter so that if {{{2}}} or {{{date}}} is defined, a parser function will include a date. {{Delete}} could then advise people to add the timestamp (~~~~~) as the second parameter.
"And thanks for clearing the c**p!" You're welcome. --Swift 12:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
IIRC {{subst:nld}} creates a date?? I'm lazy I copy what I can! --Herby talk thyme 12:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes it does ... because it is subst-ed ... which, come to think of it, wouldn't be a great problem with {{delete}}. I kind of like not substing templates, but in this case I guess there isn't really a reason not to. We'd have to advertise it quite well so that people who are used to it won't be annoyed. I guess we could take this to the talk page and the staff lounge. --Swift 12:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

reset I'm an ignorant user - I just place them so it would matter to me so long as I just copy and paste stuff in! I'm an ignorant user who wouldn't mind knowing more - why would it be such as issue? Not important and no rush at all but I wonder just how many average people know/understand? <cynic>most talk pages see little activity, staff lounge is great for inertia</cynic> If I can help I will --Herby talk thyme 12:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It would be an issue (though not a terrible one) for users who regularly use the template and just remember how to use it. It is more a question of being polite and avoid possibly annoying good and productive editors. Announcing it in the SL would be for spreading the word, and the talk page for discussion (which belongs less on the SL) and documentation. --Swift 12:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Swift, have you talked to darklama about this? He has some code that makes the templates count themselves down, subst or no subst. --SB_Johnny | talk 12:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I haven't. Today I glanced at something about that (on the SL, I think) but haven't seen it (I guess this came up when I was away). I'm just slowly catching up with things (and getting sidetracked with stuff like speedy deletions). I guess we should have a look at the countdown code and have chat with Darklama. Do you know of a template that uses this? --Swift 12:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I just found some following the category link you posted on Darklama's talk page. I'll have a look at this later. Thanks, --Swift 13:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You may wish to take a look at User:Darklama/Templates/lastedit and User:Darklama/Templates/lastedit/test. lastedit is the bases for any countdown templates. User:Darklama/Templates/query makes use of it and you can see that it works because User:Darklama/Templates/query/test shows up in SD, which took it 7 days to do. My testing phase to see if the month bit of it work properly is hopefully almost over, lastedit counts by days, weeks or months and its almost been a month now. As you can probably guess by its name lastedit counts from the last time a page was edited rather then the time someone added the template. SB_Johnny seems to prefer it that way, because its more forgiving. Counting from when the template was added is also possible, using subst, you would need to do a double subst using some tricks to make the subst within the template not happen until the second subst is used with its inclusion on a page. From what I've seen this is done by using {{<includeonly>subst:</includeonly>VARIABLE}} inside the template and then using subst on the template. --darkYin yang.svglama 13:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'd found the "includeonly subst magic" on Meta, but didn't find out until after trying it that the template needed to be subst-ed.
For your count-down code, why not just use {{CURRENTTIMESTAMP}} and {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP}} do to the date comparison? --Swift 14:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
{{#expr:}} doesn't like numbers as big as whats in the timestamps for some reason, thats what my first attempt to give it a go involved. Since that didn't work, I used the individual units instead. --darkYin yang.svglama 15:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Another idea that I will probably try to do because of a template that SB_Johnny pointed out to me (that really didn't do as one hoped for), is a generic template that takes a number and determens if that number of days has passed. So that some templates don't require a fixed timeframe in which to be triggered. --darkYin yang.svglama 13:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that would be really great! --Swift 14:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

On time stamping

One for copyvio's would be good. Some will be out of their copyright period at this rate :-). --Herby talk thyme 14:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Darklama's code could prove a brilliant tool for cleanup tasks all-round. Do we give out honorable mentions? :-) --Swift 14:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Good work is being done by many - Kudos to Darklama but have some yourself. Some worthwhile cleaning you've done. As I'm posting I thought we only welcome'd folk with some edits (? tho what that is I don't know) & DL's Template:Joinus is nice and aimed at IPs --Herby talk thyme 15:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Herby. Also for your own work ... we have a good thank-you circle going here :-D.
As for the welcome template. Yes, that has been the convention. I just didn't bother putting in at that time. I knew that there were some other welcome templates out there and putting this up would get some attention to clean this up.
Thanks for fixing the category and adding {{Joinus}}. Perhaps we should put the template conventions up on the category page and link to that from the welcome templates. --Swift 15:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikijunior/Test

I'm fine with this being deleted, I guess, although I dont know it would serve much purpose. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 18:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Less clutter when editors are familiarizing themselves with that part of the project?
Personally, I like cleaning up "page clutter" by deleting useless pages. I realize the value in keeping pages for backwards compatibility and that we don't suffer from lack of storage space so keeping pages for historic value bears a negligible price on our servers.
I do, however, think that streamlined content is of great value as the project grows. I'd be very keen on hearing your arguments if you think my ideas aren't helping the project or that I'm wasting my time. --Swift 23:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Ramblings

Thanks for the cleaning today - as (almost) the only RC patroller I get to see (& review) most stuff and to have some action is great. I noticed you were on the deletion policy talk page too. It may be that you see some things more my way than others. For me VfD is a process that needs completing not just starting. It doesn't worry me to "close" the obvious debates (after all if anyone disagrees they can say so). I do not want WB to be too like WP but they close the debate in a rather more determined fashion with a border and background colour to the section - any views? It would make it look more "closed" if it's going to sit there for a week (or so) until someone deletes it (or can/should it be arc'd quicker?). I may just try it next time and see what anyone says. Scuse the ramble! Thanks again --Herby talk thyme 19:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I really like the WP way of boxing (and colouring) the closed debates. Go ahead and try it out. If you have any more thoughts on the deletion process, I'd be very interested.
I'm hoping to implement my suggestions for the VfD page and I'd like to take that opportunity to go through the process and streamline some of the guidelines. When I'll get around to this, I don't know. :-( --Swift 21:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

ITMA

I've commented on your post to my Talk page. I'd like you to read it, please. Ewen 06:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Templates, categories & time

(cross posted to Swift & Darklama as it follows yesterday's chat and I'm not sure who is watching who. Whoever answers first gets to decide where the chat takes place!)

Continuing to think about this. I am a real believer that categories should be correctly cat'd in an alpha fashion (not book name) - usually. However for maintenance type stuff time seems more interesting/important (and seems to be the case for some of this on WP)? For example I marked a few copyvios about a month ago - if they are copyvios they should be gone by now. Equally following threads on RC I found a couple of pages that were marked for "cleanup" a year ago. The problem is that you would only find out by going to the page. Worth working on? --Herby talk thyme 08:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Votes_for_deletion#Organic_Chemistry.2FAcetone_peroxide_synthesis VfD

(cross posted to Swift & Pete)

Could you just confirm that you are happy with Ewen's comments at the bottom of this debate. My sense of tidiness (among other things) makes me want to close and archive this but I would not wish to do so without your approval. Then I'll close it and archive it unless anyone else wants to with "doom" on Organic Chemistry/Acetone peroxide synthesis. I'm guessing if the staff chemistry experts are happy with it the rest of us will be fine --Herby talk thyme 18:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the lack of time here recently. I'll try to look into this tomorrow. I won't have too much time and this things are piling up for the weekend. I understand that people would like this closed and I apologise for not clearing this up sooner, but I'm afraid that trying to steer clear off Ewen has resulted in Wikibook's place on my daily hobby-chores has sunk down a little recently (e.g. in place of: [1] — gnuplot 4.2 is the bomb :-)).
It is well into the night here in GMT so this won't happen till tomorrow afternoon the earliest. --Swift 02:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, there is no valuable content still at the Organic Chemistry book. I'll delete it. --Swift 18:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Should have said - combination of my watch list and RC means I don't miss a lot <g> (even if I miss replying). Thanks --Herby talk thyme 16:35, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Great minds!

I came on the morning intending to "nudge" Imamat or Successorship After the Last Prophet of God and you beat me to it! I know it ain't policy but would a compromise be to "close" it for a month say but very definitely re-open and deal with it then (telling the author that)? May not be "policy" but I'm learning policy is what we make it as we go along. --Herby talk thyme 11:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Policy on the hoof! Could create another "close" - close pending review. That would cover this one and - when you get to it - Wikibooks:Votes_for_deletion#Future_2? I'm sure it should be voted on but life is waaay to short, I'd be happy to take the blame if anyone yells --Herby talk thyme 17:05, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikibooks:Staff_lounge#VfDs_-_a_third_way.3F is the attempt - regards --Herby talk thyme 11:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

VfD organisation

Just to repeat it I do agree with you about the need to change the method here. I've just found that a number of VfD were not closed properly earlier this year and they still have tags on. Trying to find the arc is a nightmare but is what I shall do next (I don't think one was even listed properly!). Anyway I guess it might be best just to change the system - discussions on doing things here seem to end up in long grass quite often - let me know if I can help? --Herby talk thyme 18:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm just catching up on the past week and will then hopefully start looking into this. Basically not a lot needs to be done. As I mentioned on the VfD, we should start archiving to sub-pages and then introduce methods to sub-page-fying current VfDs.
Any help is well appreciated. --Swift 19:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Might have some time over the weekend (depending on weather). If you make a start I'll happily follow. Just trying to tidy up the pages still with VfD tags that are not current at present so maybe I'll try and finish the job off first and then work with you. --Herby talk thyme 19:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, I might get around to this by the evening. Tomorrow will probably be offline. --Swift 19:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
OK leave me with an example maybe of the naming method/whatever. Won't do anymore of the old ones now or the page will be overcrowded (again) - regards --Herby talk thyme 19:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandal

Action please --Herby talk thyme 18:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

SB Johnny beat me to it! Thanks for the heads-up. --Swift 18:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome Usage

Why the changes? Some people were having trouble understanding when to use it and I thought it was helpful to include. I also don't see the need for subst for welcome. If the template is changed in the future, I think users who have it on their page will benifit from it reflecting that change rather then staying fixed. --darkYin yang.svglama 19:54, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. I was just writing you a message.
I didn't think I cut anything out of the actual meat of the text. I apologise if I did. My intent was to make the general outline quick and to the point.
I don't see the need for the welcome template contents to be updated as users generally don't need it once they learn how to use Wikibooks and where to find information.
Some interesting information is available at w:Wikipedia:Template_substitution (I'm not imposing WP practice on WB, but drawing on the vast WP knowledge for use here).
It was asked on Template talk:Welcome why the template wasn't being substituted and at the time no-one argued that it shouldn't be. I'm all for discussing wheter it should.
I was trying to keep the when to use it as short as possible, but felt it needed to be clear that its a judgement call and to give a brief example. I prefer quick and to the point myself, so I can appreciate that, but not if its at the cost of information. Some users may find it useful as a handy reference to keep around to click on whenever they forget something. Having it all in one place, allows users to goto their talk page and click the link they want when they need it rather then seeking it out and they don't have to worry about keeping it up to date. It also allows welcomers to see whose recently been welcomed at a glance through the "what links here" link. --darkYin yang.svglama 20:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, I personally prefer the principle-approach rather than the example one (the "some seasoned" and "while other" annoys my particularly) but will agree that users may find it more appealing.
"Some users may find it useful as a handy reference to keep around". True, but my feeling is that they more often put up such links on their user pages. the links they find useful on their user pages. It would be difficult to gauge the actual attitude of new users since they don't seem to frequent the Staff Lounge. If you actually know something or have a good idea about what users want that would be great to know. I myself have nothing concrete to offer. :-(
Those who don't frequent Wikibooks and might not bother creating their own set of useful links, a radical changing of the template (not unlikely if they are gone long) might be confusing.
"It also allows welcomers to see whose recently been welcomed". Why would one want to? This could also be easily done with categories. --Swift 23:18, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Regarding categories: no they of course don't allow time ordering yet. --Swift 23:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I have nothing concrete to offer as far as what users might find helpful or unhelpful either. Those who don't frequent Wikibooks might be caught offguard by any changes in policies or practises that are reflected in the welcome template, but which don't show up for them because of the use of subst. Infrequent users have more to be confused about than a sudden change in the welcome message. A category would probably be better actually then relying on "what links here". I wasn't talking about sorting by time, by recently welcomed I meant by comparing the "what links here" list with the new user log. "Why would one want to?" To find out what users need to be welcomed I'd imagine.
I read WP:TS to try to see what advantages might be mentioned for using subst in these sort of cases, since at least half my reasoning is due to lack of seeing any advantages to using subst for this. I didn't agree with reasons like "Lots of links", "might be deleted in the future", etc. There are no tricks being used in the template that require the use of subst. So I think "why bother?" and focus on the possible advantages to not doing so, including the smaller ones like "less typing" and "less to delete later". --darkYin yang.svglama 02:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

More VfD organising stuff

OK - I can see what you are doing and it looks fine. I'll try one or two myself (how did you get the edit summary so good?), don't worry about deleting, as long as I get my admin rights soon I'll need something to practice on! So filing away is fine - the problem then is retrieval. To me we need some kind of cat/index by time (just year?) and then an alpha cat (using SUBPAGENAME)? Don't worry about actually doing the pages (set the cat up maybe or give me a clue) - so long as I can get a page with the pages on I'll do a run with AWB which will be far more efficient - but what did you have in mind? All the best --Herby talk thyme 13:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why sorting by date/time would be needed for VfDs if they are sorted by name. All a person should need to know is if a book or page has been brough up for deletion before. --darkYin yang.svglama 13:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm guessing you are watching this DL so for you & Swift the time aspect is twofold. My wish for organisation makes me want to be able to access data from at least two directions (OK that's me!). Possibly better - over time a picture would be available to anyone interested of the volume of VfDs dealt with. Also I think I should be able to put the archive tag on the pages with the cats using AWB. Thanks --Herby talk thyme 09:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Unsolved archive page

Could you possibly clarify the Unsolved archive page? Your last edit of that page states it to be some sort of a "historical archive". Did this come from Unsolved problems in biology? Why was it put here (without any history)

The origin of the "Unsolved archive" page is described at the top of the "Unsolved problems in biology" page. --JWSurf 05:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User talk:JWSchmidt#Unsolved archive. --Swift 02:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

"Do you resent this being deleted." <-- You are perceptive: I do have some resentments. But I have moved this material to another wiki where exploration of the unknown and the unsolved is more central to the mission. --JWSurf 18:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User talk:JWSchmidt#Unsolved archive. --Swift 04:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

"I'd like to ask you not to require your collegues to be perceptive." <-- I agree that it is fruitless to expect wiki colleagues to be perceptive. Far too often irony goes unnoticed. I suppose the wikilawyers will eventually get around to making the use of irony a bannable offense. --JWSurf 04:40, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User talk:JWSchmidt#Unsolved archive. --Swift 05:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

"Irony is a literary device, not a constructive communicationt method." <-- My interest in irony concerns its use as a way to encourage people to think about their actions. This is often called "Socratic irony". --JWSurf 18:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Template (mis)use

Hi Swift,

I didn't know I there was a better way to include content on multiple pages other than with templates. Thanks for the tip. I thought I had seen something on doing that a long time ago, but when I needed it, I couldn't find the info on how to do it. And I did do a pretty thorough search! I finally mistakenly concluded that I must have been thinking about templates, so I went with that. I have probably fifty such templates that I used for first aid and camping too. Luckily, I prefixed them all with "Ay" when I created them, so maybe that will make them easier for me to find (though some of them should remain templates as they take arguments and are used throughout my book). I think what you are suggesting is that I should make them "regular" pages, and then include them in all the place they are used. Thanks again. Jim Thomas 14:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User_talk:Jomegat#Templates and other included content --Swift 15:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Scrapbooks

Hi Swift... I brought up the scrapbook idea on the SL, seems to be fairly well-recieved so far. The morotcycling thing could be put into a "driving skills" scrapbook, etc. Any thoughts? --SB_Johnny | talk 15:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree - I was going to suggest one or two of those in VfD for the scrapbook --Herby talk thyme 15:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Speedy

Fair comment - I kind of expected someone to pull me up on it. There was "effectively" no content would be my view and I see a sense in which it could have been speedy'd anyway. Other side of the coin - I just rescued Arran from speedy. I'd prefer VfD to focus on ones that are real judgment ones that to have the page cluttered so anyone passing might find it less easy to read. I'll happily get it out of the bin if you feel strongly about it - let me know --Herby talk thyme 16:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User talk:Herbythyme#Speedy close --Swift 16:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Additionally WB:DP#Votes_for_deletion actually states This part of the policy is not clearly defined, and needs to be sorted out. Further that WB:DP#Meaningful_content is open to interpretation --Herby talk thyme 16:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User talk:Herbythyme#Speedy close --Swift 16:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Restored - I look forward to your vote (& any others) with interest --Herby talk thyme 16:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd be interested in your interpretation of meaningful content as it relates to this page (which was really my issue with it) --Herby talk thyme 16:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
In any more detail than I did on WB:VFD#Military finance? --Swift 16:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

How to install h3knix

I found that by accident while searching for typoes on wikipedia, and transwikied it to wikibooks. I know nothing about the distribution. I nominated that page for deletion in January but it was kept. I'd be inclined to vote delete for now assuming the distribution doesn't exist anymore. Pianoman87 00:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on w:User talk:Graham87#b:How to install h3knix. --Swift 02:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I-POD NANO

Thanks for the note. The rendering seems to be OK now. Your reference to what s meant by "fixed" seems to be what I had in mind. That block of text, with "Mumfum" appearing at the top was staying in one place even as I scrolled through the page to get to the completely unrelated matter that interested me. But for this I would never have touched it. It could very well be that the problem arose from the vandalism which was reversed, but had not yet had the linkages in the servers caught up. No real harm done. Eclecticology 06:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Replied on User_talk:Eclecticology#Template on WB:VFD. --Swift 06:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Great job!

Earning the Family Life merit badge is on its way to be a great module. Thanks for contributing to this module and Wikibooks. Tannersf 12:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the complement, but how this module is progressing is debatable. All I did was wikify. It is still just a copied list without any annotation and needs to find a home somewhere at Scouting — which, incidentally, is terrbly organized. :-( --Swift 16:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Answer from es:wikibooks

Hello Swift,

Nanas de la cebolla by Miguel Hernández might be in Wikisource, but I believe that his works are not in the public domain.

The template for speedy deletion in es:wikibooks is [2]. There is a list of templates for this issues here: [3]

Regards, --Álvaro M 14:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

PD: Please answer (if you want / need to do that) in es:wikibooks community portal, w:ca:Usuari Discussió:Álvaro M or in my inbox :-) Thanks --Álvaro M 14:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Citing wikipedia origins of wikibook material

(I think you've dealt with such issues in the past) How does one cite an article in wikipedia as the original source of a wikibook page? Is there a standard protocol, is there a good example to follow or should I just make something up? (I'll watch this page fr your reply - thanks for your time and expertise). Ewen 20:12, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikibooks:Profanity

I just wanted to give you a final heads-up, I'm going to make this page an official policy now. The discussion has stagnated, and besides your objection on the vocabulary used, there is no opposition to the wording. If we want to change the word "profanity" to something else in the future, we certainly can, but if we don't want to change the wording, at least we have some kind of policy on the books concerning this type of content. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 01:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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