User talk:Mike.lifeguard/Archive 2

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Page merger

I'm sorry about making it seem like the comment about a page merger was directed at you. This is an administrator (aka you need project admin status your account) in order to accomplish a full page merger.

If you look at the history page of the Wilderness First Aid module, there are some edits going back to 2004, and in fact some information about edits that go back to 2003. This is very nearly right when Wikibooks itself was first started.

What we are trying to do here is to preserve the editing information to give proper credit to those who may have contributed, under the terms of the GFDL. It is a messy process to do a page merger, and sometimes other admins need to be reminded about the process.

BTW, I just finished the page merger process. If you have any other similar kinds of tasks like this, please feel free to drop a note on the Administrators' noticeboard to make a request. Admins tend to be users who have been involved with the project for awhile and have a desire to get into some of the mucky little details that is mainly needed to fight vandals who would try to mangle up the content of this website. They are some powerful tools that can really do some damage if left available for new users to apply on pages as experiments, but in some cases prove to be absolutely essential in terms of keeping a project like Wikibooks going.

I hope this makes sense, and I would also be willing to go into more details about this if you are interested. BTW, thank you very much for all of the effort that you have put into the First Aid wikibook. This book was originally started on Wikipedia as a How-to guide, and has gone through several groups of interested participants. Still, what you have been doing lately is incredibly useful as it brings some of the content much more up to date, and it is important to note pages like the tick information that may be offering some bad advise.

We are all just trying to muddle through this together and make some useful content, and it is especially important to help support those, like yourself, who are making these valuable contributions. Keep up the good work! --Rob Horning 10:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Just a follow-up to Robert's comments: you've got a great history of contributions, and would certainly recieve the administrators tools if you'd like them. It wouldn't mean any requirement for extra work (unless you had the urge), but looking at your contribs (especially vandal patrolling) you might find them handy to have from time to time. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 17:14, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

What are the admin tools? I know you get a delete tab, and something about getting an "undo" button. And blocking users. Anything missing? Mike.lifeguard 18:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Basically it - just add in "protect" to stop pages from being edited if subject to vandalism or sensitive project wide templates and the like. Cheers --Herby ^{talk thyme} 18:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds useful. Do you want me to request adminship, or should I wait for someone to nominate me? Mike.lifeguard 18:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

But that's not all! You also get the handy-dandy Import button so you can copy Wikipedia articles (and their histories) into Wikibooks. Now how much would you pay? --Jomegat 18:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually that's really useful. I definitely C&P-ed content from WP the other day, so there's no edit history. I gave credit to WikiProject First Aid contributors, but the edit histories would be better (obviously). I'm assuming that I could re-do it properly, keeping the histories, with this tool? -Mike.lifeguard 18:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Yep, exactly. You can also import what you copied earlier and then do the fancy history-merge thing. Consider yourself nominated... brb with a link. --SB_Johnny | ^talk 18:53, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

And here's the link... please accept the nom so we can all vote for you :). --SB_Johnny | ^talk 19:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Signature

I noticed you created a Mike.lifeguard signature template and just wanted to let you know that you don't need to create a template to have a custom signature like what other people use.

Click the "my preferences" link.
Make sure the checkbox is marked for "Raw signatures (without automatic link)"
Add whatever wikitext you want to the nickname textbox.
Click the save button

Then from now on whenever you insert ~~~~ on a page the username part of your signature will be replaced with whatever text you inserted into the nickname textbox. For example you can add "Mike.lifeguard | Talk" to the nickname textbox if you want that to replace your username. --dark lama 15:05, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - I was using the template mostly to experiment - to figure out what I wanted to put there. -Mike.lifeguard 17:05, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I think I like the new one! – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 02:16, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Just so you know, there is Wikibooks:Sandbox and Template:Template sandbox for that, for future tests you might want to do. --dark lama 02:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry. I started off thinking I needed a template. Then I figured it out. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 02:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Good Work!

Hello Mike.lifeguard, how are you doing? Your RFA nomination is going well, and hopefully we will be able to promote you by the end of this week or early next week.

I've been watching your work on the RC feed the last few days, and you're really doing a good job with everything. One piece of advice that I try to give to all new admins (and all admin candidates) is not to over-do it. You don't want to go full throttle and burn yourself out! Just remember, especially during the times when you feel like there is just so much work to do here, that you came to Wikibooks to relax and have some fun (and maybe write some books), and that this is supposed to be a hobby and not a job.

Anyway, you are doing a great job, and I hope you can continue to be a great contributor for a long time. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 23:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm at work right now with nothing to do, so... this actually saves me from burnout at my real job. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 23:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for inviting me ML, truth is I have an account, give you 3 guesses who it is :). 76.200.210.183 00:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Closing VfD

HI Mike - no biggie but when you close a VfD could you sign it. You'll find the templates for closing at the top of the VfD page - cheers --Herby ^{talk thyme} 06:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Additional diagnostics

It's something i teach to my first aid teams, because it's simple to learn and goes a long way to helping the ambulance crew on arrival. Might be more first responder based, so no problem with putting it in advanced skills. Also gives the first aiders something to do while they are waiting for the ambulance... Owain.davies 17:10, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The head-to-toe part of a secondary takes a while when done properly, and the stuff you added is really just advanced things to look for during a head-to-toe. So advanced, that I moved it to First Aid/Extended Assessment. Which I'm going to add some additional spinal-injury assessment stuff to. Seeing as you're a paramedic(?) you should proof that once I get it up. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 02:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the promotion! just a tech i'm afraid! Seems like a good place for it. On another note, have you looked at my talk comments on Talk:First Aid/Emergency First Aid & Initial Action Steps? On other things that need to be there, i think we need sections on

Mechanism of injury (leads in to dealing with all trauma cases)
First aid kit contents

Regards, Owain.davies 06:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Those 2 things sound good, but I still think the chapter should be re-organized as I described here. They should definitely be integrated somewhere. MOI should go in Area, and First Aid Kit Contents should probably be an Appendix. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 21:08, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

B for breathing

I've been back and checked, and the protocols i added there are definitely correct. The two rescue breaths were dropped in the last revision, as there is no clinical requirement for them - once cardio-respiratory arrest had taken place, the gases are stuck where they are (because no respiration can take place whilst there is no blood or pulmonary movement! - i.e. the blood is still full of oxygen until circulation and breathing start again.)

Rescue breaths are only appropriate for trauma and paeds. In children, they are more likely to enter respiratory arrest only, making the use of breaths first to stimulate them to breathe on their own appropriate. For trauma, due to the mechanism, the gases are likely to be used up as the body struggles to keep going. For this reason, the number was upped to five.

As for the hand on the chest, i find that to be the most reliable of the indicators for breathing when in a stressful situation.

On that basis, i have reverted back to my edits (although fixed the spelling!)

Owain.davies 17:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Your rationale may or may not be legitimate, but is totally irrelevant. Resuscitation is not defined by either of us. As I noted on your talk page, ILCOR LSS and AHA disagree with the protocols you've put here. I need to see a citation - then we can think about including it. ~~I've reverted to a previous edit; please don't add these protocols again without a good citation and discussion with other editors.~~ I will do this shortly, but I have to run for a few minutes. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 17:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Done – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 17:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

This section was copied to Talk:First Aid/B for Breathing#B for Breathing; further comments should be placed there instead of here. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 19:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

C for compressions

I have also changed back the section on obstructed airway victims. I've added the part about visible obstructions to this section, but the protocol for anyone not breathing is CPR, regardless of cause. You should try adjusting airway, and in the highly unlikely event something is in the mouth, then remove it.

Experience suggests that its never in the mouth! Furthermore, the section in Obstructed Airway which says that if its not the tongue, its a foreign object is just incorrect. It can be other medical causes! Owain.davies 17:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a difference between CPR and procedures for unconscious obstructed airway. Please don't make significant changes like this before discussion. Keep in mind that we're writing a book for lay rescuers - the medical causes you cite are irrelevant to lay rescuers. Again, personal experience is irrelevant - it may inform tips and tricks, but it doesn't change protocols. There is no finger sweep/foreign body check after readjusting the airway - rescuers should go straight to compressions after a 2nd failed attempt at ventilation, as was covered in the obstructed airway section you reverted. If you're working from standards that are different from ILCOR's, then we need to thoroughly discuss such changes before they're made. If we're working from the same set of procedures, then they need to be reflected accurately. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 17:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

This section was copied to Talk:First Aid/C for Compressions#C for Compressions; further comments should be made there instead of here. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 19:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Admin

You are now an admin, congratulations. In general it's not that big of a deal, so if you need any help or any explanations, you are welcome to ask. As a word of caution, if you have any doubts at all about using a particular tool in a particular situation, ask for help or agreement first. When it comes to user blocks or page deletions, it's always better to be safe then to be sorry.

Congratulations again, good luck! --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 17:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll definitely be asking for advice on blocks and protection if the issues arise. As for deletions, can I delete my own speedies instead of tagging them? – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 20:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, if you are certain that a page is worth deleting then you can delete it. Typically, I will delete garbage or nonsense (spam, vandalism, newbie tests) without asking anybody. If I find a case that is border-line, I will tag it for speedy, and see if another admin agrees with me, or I will nominate it for VfD. As an admin, things are really left up to your best judgement, and so long as you act with a certain amount of caution in mind you should do fine. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 20:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Airway as vitals

I think you may have missed the point. The airway check is not just about being open, the key thing at vitals stage (assuming that the airway is open) is the noises it is making (striddor, wheeze etc.) and whilst the FA might not know what is causing a problem, they can certainly describe the airway noise. Maybe i'll make that clearer in the article. Owain.davies 21:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

No - all of that is part of Airway in the ABCs. Certainly expand that section to include all that detail. It takes a bit of explaining in writing, but in practice checking all that kind of stuff is about 1 or 2 seconds. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 21:32, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, by keeping it in vitals, when it takes one or two seconds to do (or more likely is just observed by being near the ~~patient~~, ~~casualty~~, victim) it forms a good reminder for the first aider, and maintains the 'ABC' flow of the vital checks - making it easier to remember, which is, after all, the point. Sound good? Owain.davies 08:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand you. ABCs are separate from vitals. For instance, the breathing check in ABCs doesn't include breathing rate or quality, but the vital sign does. Circulation doesn't exist in the ABCs anymore, but does in vitals. Likewise, Airway is an ABC, not a vital sign. Again, putting airway as A in ABCs puts it at a higher priority than putting it in the vital signs would. Feel free to leave it there, but it's an unnecessary step – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 12:39, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Obstructed airway

Quote direct from ILCOR Part 2: Adult Basic Life Support

"Unconscious victims should receive CPR. The finger sweep should be used in the unconscious patient with an obstructed airway only if solid material is visible in the airway"

I think what is written now is ok, but still possibly over emphasises the importance if the finger sweep. What is certainly not recommended is your hideously complicated set of procedures, which i find it hard to believe anyone would remember

Their wording uses "CPR" as a term equivalent to "chest compressions" - which is correct. Any foreign obstruction that can be seen and removed with the fingers should be... removed with the fingers. That step comes directly after trying to remove the obstruction (compressions). I fail to see how that's over-emphasized. Granted the text I had in First Aid/Obstructed Airway was overly cumbersome, but that doesn't make it wrong. It was copied and pasted from my own work from my original first aid instructor course, and is not my most lucid writing. Instead of deleting stuff like that, improve it. Integrating unconscious procedures into CPR is fine, but this whole dispute over what standards actually are goes right to the heart of "be bold, but discuss major changes first". Please try not to make unilateral changes to the text without prior discussion. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 12:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

D for defibrillation

As for D for defibrillation, they do advocate further training, but they also clearly give ABCD with the D as defibrillation : See Part I: Introduction of the ILCOR protocol, under "The Universal Algorithm". Even the title suggests that they are trying to get this adopted by everyone. As we are following ILCOR so far as possible, there really is no option but to use this variant! Owain.davies 08:19, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mind that the universal algorithm includes defib only out of necessity. You'll only get to D if you have an AED and specific advanced training. (Whether that should be the case is another matter - I think that AED training is totally unneeded. AEDs are designed to be idiot-proof - that's the whole point of them! But alas, my opinion doesn't count for much, does it?) So really, I'd prefer to see the text stay with getting an AED and AED-trained responder in A for Ambulance (which doesn't exist yet), and using an AED in First Aid/Advanced Topics. Yes ILCOR would like defib for everyone, but I'm sure you'll notice that hasn't happened yet. When it does, I'll be more than happy to implement those changes and let you make corresponding changes to this book. Until then, we'll have to maintain the divide between rescuers trained in CPR and those trained in AED; those trained in First Aid and those trained in Oxygen Admninstration...

Do you have any thoughts about re-organizing the BLS chapter as I described here? – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 12:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Re:Image Deletions

We had been trying to do that image cleanup thing for a while using a deletion bot that we borrowed from an admin on commons. The process got stalled because several community members wanted the job to be done more "cleanly" then the bot was doing it. The bot was simply deleting the images, not removing the image tags from the books, nor alerting the talk pages, etc.

With that short history in mind, if you feel that the images are worthy of being deleted, and that there is not alternative solution to the problem besides deletion, then you are welcome to it. If you decide to delete these images, you have my full support. The book may be hurt by it, but in the end the whole wikibooks project will be better without all the potential copyvios. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 23:18, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

So for each image, what needs to be done?

Delete the image
Delete all links to it
Put a note on the uploader's talk page? (but if it's just Barsathi's images that I'm deleting (for now), then a single "they've all been deleted" should be enough, right?)
???

– Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 23:29, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

ILCOR protocols

You obviously haven't followed the link i gave you - ILCOR clearly state that the protocol should ABCD with D for defibrillation. They also state that Defibrillation is both a BLS and ALS skill. They also state that ambulance comes after airway. You are the one so keen on sticking exactly to ILCOR. Read the link! Owain.davies 16:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Reply is here – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 19:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Re:Barsathi's Images

If you really want to get into this project, I would recommend that you delete the images, but not any of the image links to those images. This way, future readers and authors will know that images are supposed to be there, and maybe somebody else will upload replacements. Just leave a single message on the talk page saying "they've all been deleted". --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 13:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Done I also changed the "Warning: your images will get deleted" thing at the top of Diagnostic Radiology to "They've been deleted and here's why the redlinks are there" – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 15:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Firefighter04

I'm on my way to becoming a firefighter. I am a first responder right now. I will try to contribute more to the medical textbooks to the best of my ability. Firefighter04 17:52, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about changing the title of the First Aid textbook. Just thought that most of those chapters fit the curriculum of a first responder. Firefighter04 16:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Closed template

Hi Mike - in a sense it was created for me! I was using markup to actually close VfDs (they had a habit of being re-opened!). History lesson over - I've not had a problem with it. IIRC the template takes the form of {{subst:Closed|1=some reason maybe and conclusion --~~~~}}. Personally I've always coloured something like the "closed" word in either red or green depending on the decision to make it stand out. Hope this helps but get back to me otherwise - regards --Herby ^{talk thyme} 07:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

vfd

Hey Mike thanks for adding all those VfD tags, I wanted to do the same thing but I guess I was daunted by the large number of them O_o. Hope your summer has gone well! Mattb112885 (talk to me) 03:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the update to the first aid sections of the Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book. --Jomegat 14:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Protected

Hey mike, in response to the vandalism today, I've temporarily protected your userpage against being edited by anons. I'll remove the protection when the storm is over, or else you can do it whenever you want. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 16:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah, I did the same for User Talk:Urbane – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 17:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks mike. It's appreciated. Urbane (Talk) (Contributions) 17:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Brion VIBBER is one of the lead MediaWiki developers, and is one of the few employees of the WMF. We can say that he is definitely a "good guy". --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 17:08, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

*facepalm* There you have it. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 17:10, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

re: Please Use Subst

Hi mike,

I saw your message and was a little confused, i was sure that i had been using the subst: command. I subsequently tried it again several times, (inserting {{subst:nld}} into Image:5percent-bar.png) but it would not subst. I then tried using the no license template, which worked fine. Perhaps the nld template is broken, or perhaps there is a conflict with my browser. Does the nld template when you try to use it? Urbane (Talk) (Contributions) 13:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Both templates seem to subst: fine for me. Here's one instance: User:Mike.lifeguard/Sandbox and I tried it on Image:5percent-bar.png, which worked fine. Same goes to substituting {{no license}}. I'm not sure how your browser could be affecting it though. {{subst:nld}} is exactly what you should be using. If it's still not working, you might try asking someone who worked on the template. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 14:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay thanks, I'll peer back at my edits, see how i may have mistyped. It may well be a typo. Urbane (Talk) (Contributions) 14:42, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Template:nld

I think the template is ok. Try to insert {{nld}} to the Sandbox. I have tried and I have seen a red warning. --Derbeth ^talk 14:36, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Calvin and Hobbes

Hi Mike,

I saw this comic this morning and thought of you: http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ch/2007/ch070905.gif Hope it brings a smile to your face. --Jomegat 12:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks man. That was right on the money. – Mike.lifeguard | ^talk 12:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

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