Talk:Wikijunior

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See also: Archive 1, Archive 2

Contents 1 Three suggestions 2 New Title Policy - Revisited 3 Building Awareness for Wikijunior and Wikibooks 4 What's going on here? 5 What's up?

[edit] Three suggestions

Why not change the name of wikijunior to WiJi? It would definitely be more appealing to children. I think it sounds a lot better. Another suggestion would be to ditch the whole wikipedia template, its too boring. make one more appealing to children. My final suggestion is too allow for flash upload; this will allow interactive viewing for children,. Animation explains in a way no textbook can. It would be exclusive to wikipedia.

[edit] New Title Policy - Revisited

I think that the current new title policy is stifling the growth of Wikijunior. I would like to see us add more titles and grow Wikijunior a little more quickly. I'm not sure if I know the perfect recipe but each time we launch a book, we get new contributors with an interest in working on it. My idea is this. Instead of launching a single new book quarterly, we launch a new book whenever there is enough support.

One way of doing this would be to check the voting at the beginning of each month. If any of the titles has 5 or more votes from users with more than 20 edits, the leading vote-getter will launch. Voting will start over and the next month the leading vote-getter will launch. If no title has 5 or more votes, there is no title launch that month and votes continue to accrue until the next month, or the following month.

Some of the advantages of this proposal:

• allows us to potentially launch 12 books a year instead of just 4.
• good book ideas can be launched faster.
• sets a minimum interested contributor requirement.
• more dynamic development environment may attract additional contributors.

Does anyone else have an opinion? --xixtas ^talk 03:57, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm all in favour. I don't like the current system as it deters editors who have to wait 3 months before they can start their book. Xania ^talk 16:08, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mind that the original "policy" that was even enforced through page deletions was to have only the three "standard" Wikijunior books until one of them was published and available on Amazon.com. I thought that was a silly policy on the whole, and there were many additional book ideas that would be appropriate for Wikijunior than were originally offered. Still, the idea here is that we ought to strongly encourage new participants to work with existing content rather than creating hundreds or thousands of new book titles that simply sit undeveloped, such as is found on Wikibooks:Alphabetical classification.

On the whole, this title selection process has been rather successful, even though it has been subverted a few times in the sense that some participants here have simply gone on and created the Wikijunior title anyway without even going through the new book of the quarter process. Some very amazing books have been written, including some content which has consistantly stayed at the leading edge of being some of the best of Wikimedia.

The reason for only launching one book per quarter was to consider that the number of Wikijunior participants at the time the process was initiated was rather small, and it was thought that trying to put together a whole Wikijunior book in less than 3 months before the next cool project was started seemed a bit overwhelming. Simply put, there weren't enough participants to justify a new book on a monthly basis. The original intention was to change this to a monthly installment eventually as Wikijunior grew and more people could be found to sustain such a level of development.

In fact, one of the original "objectives" of Wikijunior was to have enough content that we could set up a monthly periodical where kids would receive a new Wikijunior book each month in the mail from a Wikijunior content publishing house. Somebody even went through the effort to register an ISSN number (like the ISBN, but for magazines). The idea was to try and have enough content "in the pipeline" of development at various stages so volunteers wouldn't feel pressured to meet a hard deadline. I don't know if this will ever be done, but it is certainly something to think about.

My only concern about this current proposal to move to a monthly book topic is again due to the level of participation. Even at the current interval, the next book title to be displayed and worked on is only 10 days away (on July 1st), and will likely be World War II as the topic. Due to the removal of the Wikijunior templates on the Main Page, the new title vote or even Wikijunior:New Title Suggestions page has lost quite a bit of the participation that it enjoyed previously. I understand that this is a proposal to modify how this may be selected as well, giving a minimum threshold as well if there isn't that level of participation, but is a month enough time to get this book suggestion developed enough before we move on? --Rob Horning 00:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Some things that I have observed about how Wikijunior when we launch a book:

• We get new contributors who come to work specifically on that book.
• The rate of edits on the book is very high for the first few weeks and then goes into a steep decline eventually leveling off to a fairly constant low level of activity after a couple months.
• Activity on Wikijunior as a whole goes up.

I think that this revision in the new title policy is worth trying. I don't think we'll actually end up launching a book each month (at least not right away). I do think we can give each book a good start in just a month. If you look at the history of book top pages and compare the state of the page after the first month with the state after three months, I think you'll find that there is usually little difference. --xixtas ^talk 03:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Building Awareness for Wikijunior and Wikibooks

I think Wikijunior is a very valuable resource, though it is under-resourced and certainly has room to grow. I have decided to "be bold" and become an advocate for Wikijunior in the Open Ed community and the broader educational technology arena (primarily K-12). I am hoping that over the next year or so this will result in more people joining the community and contributing.

One way to do this is to get Wikijunior books listed in some of the Open Ed repositories so that more people know about them. To move this ahead, I have started creating metadata for OER Commons, which will then also feed into ccLearn and other sites. I am starting with the featured books that are educational in nature.

If you have any feedback on this, I'd love to hear it. Also if you know of a mature book that is not currently "featured" or if you'd like to send me an abstract of any book you've worked on or are familiar with to include, that would be helpful too.

Once this is further along and in OER Commons, I'll post an update. Kfasimpaur 22:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC) talk

One of the things I believe is necessary is for a physical print version of some of the Wikijunior books to become available, that can be sold at more or less reasonable prices. This is a very hard chicken-or-egg problem that is very difficult to crack, and something that is going to take a fairly sizable hunk of real cash... and something that simply must come from outside of the Wikimedia Foundation. The WMF certainly is not interested in getting in the publishing business...especially after Brad Patrick pushed for the WMF as an ISP philosophy. When the WMF was Jimbo's private plaything it was much more reasonable to consider a publishing group.

It may also be useful to try and come up with a "best of Wikijunior" website.... where it can show some of the outstanding contributions that have been made over the years, but without the cruft that comes from the initial editing process due to the fact this is a Wiki. This is an idea which has been discussed several times over the past several years, but is something that I think is overdue at the moment. The problem with previous efforts to get this going was mainly a lack of communication with the major stakeholders, and the willingness to follow through. The wikijunior.org domain is owned by the WMF, and this is perhaps something that can be expanded upon by a dedicated individual who wants to get something going. I'll spell more out in another section on this talk page later.

The main thing is trying to get either or both of these efforts going... and the problems here with Wikijunior really are a microcosm for Wikibooks as a whole as well. I do believe that the K-6 market (more or less the primary target of the initial Wikijunior books) is an easier "market" to crack... particularly if we are not trying to make full textbooks but only supplementary materials. Genuine textbooks may be a bit tougher nut to crack.

The idea of advertising Wikijunior through educational websites is a good idea.... and I've seen Wikijunior mentioned a couple of times. Posting links to well developed Wikibooks titles is IMHO the best sort of "advertising" that can happen, and seems to be where Wikibooks does the best as well. Of course, some effort still needs to be done with some final "polishing" of the existing Wikijunior titles, and any help along those lines is always appreciated as well. --Rob Horning 11:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I support the proposal to establish a "stable" Wikijunior site.

A "stable" Wikijunior site would be easier to externally link to. --Jsigler (talk) 03:52, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: printed books, I'm not as convinced that is critical. Most schools I work with are much more interested in electronic books than print ones. However, if print books are a desirable outcome, there are many grants that would be relatively easy to secure. A more stable site and a strong partnership with the K-12 community would be essential though.

Kfasimpaur 16:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC) talk

I think having printed books that people can buy inexpensively is a desirable goal, but I think that having stable versions online is a critical next step in the development of Wikijunior. Also, thanks for getting his together, Karen. I've look at several OER sites and they are a little baffling to me. --xixtas ^talk 03:08, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the above user; having the books released in printed format isn't neccesarily a critical acheivement. While it would, perhaps, make it easier for schools without internet access to obtain the books, having the books available online will make it easier overall for most schools. Furthermore, if they wish to have a paper copy of the book, they will be responsible for printing costs, which I honestly don't believe will be a serious hardship on the part of a school, considering the fact that 1) wikijunior books aren't especially lengthy and 2) most schools already have equipment and money set aside for printing costs. (such as for worksheets, exams, etc) The only setback is that most schools do not have color printers intended for larger scale printing jobs, so self-printed wikijunior books would end up being black and white, unless the school specifically set aside money to have the books printed up properly.

In addition, e-books tend to be easier to search (ctrl+F !), can be viewed at home or at school, and if the books aren't printed out, a lot of trees can be saved ^_^

I think that the printed books would be most useful, as I mentioned earlier, to those who do not have computers or internet access, such as poorer schools or schools in third world countries. --Winter (talk) 03:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I completely take back what I said about the books not being lengthy. I just looked at the Big Cats one and it's just a *little* too much to be printing out... I made my previous comment thinking in terms of the book I last contributed to (Ancient Egypt), which wasn't very long. But still I think that having the books available as e-books is more important. At least for now, while the books aren't as well known. Maybe when the books are more widely used and a demand for them in printed format is generated , then it would be a good idea, but for now, I think that e-books are the way to go. --Winter (talk) 03:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I think Wikijunior needs a logo like wikibooks has. Maybe something that looks like a childrens book cover with multicolored text like the KIDS heading on the Wikijunior front page. Colorful pictures are an important in childrens books. Adding covers of books to front page would make it more kid-friendly. Pictures and logo are good for marketing. I'd like to be be able to add a link from my class web site to our Wikijunior book: Famous Inventors using a logo, so it would be nice if there was one. --Jsigler (talk) 03:52, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Jsigler, it's great to see your enthusiasm for the wikijunior project. As far as a logo goes, there is an ongoing process to select a new logo on meta see here. You are more than welcome to contribute to this discussion, and your input would be greatly appreciated. Reece (Talk) (Contributions) 21:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What's going on here?

I'm really interested in putting some significant time into some of the Wikijunior books. My only hesitation is that it seems as though there is very little activity here. What I'm wondering and trying to gain a sense of, is how many people are involved and how much work is being done with these projects. Some of the books need some significant work and refinement that I know I'm not capable of doing alone. I don't really want to put a lot of time into books that will never be finished. Rmawhorter (talk) 01:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What's up?

A few concerns. Where is the vote for the next book? The Wikijunior title page links to a vote dated June 2007 which makes us look like we've stopped updating the website. It also looks a bit bad that the 'Wikijunior News' is dated November 2007 which also gives the impression that nothing is happening around here. In addition I'd like to add my Europe book to the little "bookshelf" image we have at the top of the page? How can I do this quickly without the need for any paint programs?--ЗAНИA ^talk 21:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)