Talk:Guitar

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Contents

[edit] Comments from 2004

I beg to differ on the statement that very few pieces are written specifically for the classical guitar, and that most are originally written for the lute and piano. You are referring mostly to music from the baroque period. There are now many classical works which are written for the guitar, including concertos, such as those by Rodrigo. Villa-Lobos, Barrios, etc, all wrote for the classical guitar.


Title should be more specific, e.g. "Rudimentary Guitar" -- Daniel

Hehe, yeah, I didn't know where I was going with it when I created it. It looks, though, like it's going to (attempt to) be a complete reference from a learner's perspective, rather than be a lesson-oriented book. I haven't settled on a title yet, myself, but of course anybody is welcome to suggest one.

BTW, do you really think we need a chapter on standard notation? The whole idea of standard notation is that it's not limited to guitar (in fact, it was rather designed for piano, IIRC), and very little of it is specific to guitar. Usually standard notation is presented along with tablature in music books for guitar, so the necessary information can probably be presented there. Because standard notation is not trivial to explain, either, I don't think it belongs here. Perhaps somebody could start a music theory book and include it there, and our book can link to it.

--Furrykef 11:14, 1 May 2004 (UTC)


I see your point, but I still think there should be chapter explaining standard notation, even if no further use of it is made in this book. As you say yourself, standard notation applies to all music, not just guitar, which makes it extra useful to learn, not less so; learning guitar means learning about music, and a large proportion of the skills and knowledge here transfer directly to other instruments, which is a good thing. For instance, almost all of this guitar book applies to bass guitar as well (I was considering adding little comments explaining where something does not apply to bass, and pointing out in the intro that this book also teaches bass). Furthermore, even for guitar itself it's extremely useful: you've referred to classical guitar a number of times and that will always require an understanding of standard notation, plus in many contexts outside of pop-rock guitar it's an essential skill. I haven't changed the text back to include the stub for standard notation, I'll wait till we finish discussing it, but I really, really think it belongs here and should be explained.

--Daniel 19:14, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

How about we rename the tablature chapter to something like "Music notation", and on the TOC add a note saying "tablature and standard notation"? I agree with you that the learning of standard notation is essential, but it's a bit of a separate problem than learning to play the guitar. Of course, as you pointed out, it's still important regardless, but this leaves us with a dilemma: the inevitable duplication of information. Somebody else might write a book about the violin, and then somebody starts writing about the piano, then yet another person starts writing about music theory. All of these should have some information on standard notation -- but we don't want to say the same things in different places, because it takes more effort for no gain. So I'm saying we should find a common place to put it and then cross-reference it instead of putting it in the guitar book. See what I mean?
--Furrykef 00:29, 2 May 2004 (UTC)
I'm fine with that. So let's have a "Music notation" chapter, which can be essentially what the tablature chapter is now, and we'll add at the bottom a (very) brief explanation of standard notation with a reference to a more general-purpose lesson on standard notation (which can be created later). Sound good?
--Daniel 10:46, 2 May 2004 (UTC)

"Advanced techniques"? I'd classify them all as "beginner" techniques; intermediate at a stretch. -- Jimregan 21:43, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

I started writing the music theory book.

--Furrykef 22:21, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Im the one who started Guitar:Philosophy thread, mostly as a non-technical idea, to fill in the gaps that the other book does not cover. You can get a sense of that from the outline. Me: Ive been playing guitar for about 20 years, I have perfect pitch, and am more into structured jamming, going into differring styles of play. I dont read notation, but I do well with chord charts, and short notated motifs and phrases.

I have lots of other interests, but the book idea seems like a good one. I didnt mean to imply a replacement for the existing text, I just had some thoughts and insights as to what might be a good way to frame the idea of being a guitar player. -Slide 16:40, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Comments from 2007

[edit] Lesson oriented book?

Sorry to start a new discussion here, but are there plans for a lesson orientated book? The guitar book in its current form seems like little help to a complete novice. Heres a layout that might make a good start for an absolute beginners book:

The Guitar

 -> Acoustic
 -> Electric
 -> Further Reading (links to History of Guitar, How guitars make noise, Famous Guitarists. etc)

Holding the Guitar

 -> Left Hand Position
 -> Right Hand Finger Picking Position
 -> Right Hand Holding the Pick

Music Theory: Notes

 -> Notes
 -> Notes on the fretboard
 -> Tips to help eventually memorize all the notes on the fretboard

Song Notation

 -> Tab
 -> Classic

Practice Songs

 -> Simple songs constructed of notes (this will be hard due to copyrights)
 -> Suggestions of good tabs on the internet

Music Theory: Chords

 -> Basic Chord theory (should link to Music Theory for more information)

copy -> Basic Chords (and how to finger them)

 -> A maj, C maj, D Maj, G Maj, E Maj, C min, D min, E min, A min

Practice Songs

 -> Simple songs using Chords (again, hard to find good stuff due to copyrights)
 -> Suggestions of good tabs on the internet

Further Learning (reference to a sequal wikibook, Music Theory, Favorite Guitar Books) Conclusions Pep talk closing speech.

Again this would focus on only the very basics, emphasis on trying to get the learning playing some simple songs, without fear that they're method is incorrect. This book would hint at things like scales and chord construction techniques and rythm, without going into detail. These topics would be covered in follow up material.

I haven't started any information because I would hate to 'fork' the guitar book project. What are your opinions on this book layout?

I myself like the idea, and do not think that a fork is that bad an idea. I actually was about to do the same thing, when I read your post. The lesson-oriented book, called "guitar lessons" or something, would more complement this book than fork it. They would cross-reference each other whenever possible, and though they would unavoidably repeat much of the same information (which isn't a wiki-sin) the lesson book would be much more oriented towards learning and ordered differently. While there are good lesson sites out there already, none of them are wikis, and many have a slant towards one genre. Also, it would be nice to have a lesson book, that, if good, would eliminate the need to wade through the "trial/pay lessons" and money shams (there are a lot of them). The wiki could link to good lessons elsewhere on the net.
That said, we would not have to rewrite this book, and we can link to this book whenever it makes sense.
Assuming there is decent support for it, I will continue. If someone decides to make one, I will contribute a lot. But I'd rather someone else started one.

Sameerkale 21:52, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

It exists already a guitar course with complete very detailed and beginner-friendly lessons on the German Wikibooks. I had offered months before already my assistance, but it did not seem to exist any interest. You only would have to transferred these lessons only into the English (by Alta Vista babel fish), and after this you need a stylistic revise. I would crib myself from in response with you, as their it makes better, and surly I could brush up my English. on the other hand you could still fill my gaps, and I can copy your ideas for the German.Example1, Example 2 Songs without copyright ... You can contact me, if it are interested in a co-operation with germany. I could likewise use each assistance for the German project. user Mjchael de.wikibooks.org --Mjchael 13:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I can't read any of it, but it looks detailed and complete. I haven't checked this place in a while because noone responded. I can see right now that Babelfish will not help much at all, the page makes no sense, so we will have to write it all over again anyway. I'll work on it some more now (I'd forgotten about it) and we can fact-swap so that both the English and German versions have all the information in them. I know about six words in german, so I can't really translate anything, nor can I navigate the page. But, we can do it somehow. Soon enough, this book will be on par with all the other lesson sites on the internet, hopefully.
Sameer Kale 23:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] German to English translation

OK, I will start a translation. But my english is not the best. I will start with a articles on a play-meadow, and you can copy them and repair the stylistic errors. --Mjchael 10:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The first steps are done... Guitar/Translations I think it sounds like a badly translated instructions from China. :O)) Please be benevolent (? indulgently) with me, I have done the best I could. --Mjchael 18:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Hallo, is there anybody? :o( --Mjchael 14:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm having a look at it, could fix some of the english (but it's not my
first language either). Do I modify the sandbox? --anon

Feel free to correct my spelling and so on. But for me, it seems that the native speakers are not interest in it. --Mjchael 17:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the German project is a good place to take ideas from, but I don't think it would be a good for the English guide to be exactly the same. If we can get a translation of the main page of the German book, then English contributors will know where to look for different kinds of information. This would save lots of time and effort. --99.245.94.31 04:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
In order for guitarists to turn to this book as a resource, we really need to push the teaching aspect more than the general information aspect. I reworked the front page, creating a Lesson section and merging the Styles section into it. I think that the lessons would be good to divide between genres, because if we treat each genre as a springboard for lessions with that kind of groove, it would allow everyone to apply their own personal guitar knowledge in their own niche. Plus it will help players find lessons geared to the type of guitar that they want to play.
Hopefully we can begin taking information from the German book and adding it here. There are very, very indepth lessons there, and we can really share a lot of content with them. Looking at the German book (on the first page, in the first section called "guitar course"), I think that "Campfire diploma" would be roughly equivalent to "Campfire Skills", and "Folkdiplom" would be equivalent to "Folk Guitar". The other genres and all the other techniques are organized differently than in the English book, so please help track the information down. Translate lessons with Babelfish, and then give the content a quick rewrite and add it to the appropriate section, then hopefully once it's there we can begin improving it. Or even better, please create your own lesson to add to any of the technique pages.
Also, I am 99.245.94.31. Since I am editing this book more frequently again, I will start using my login for edits. --NickPenguin 09:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I haven't seen, that you use some of our pages. Campfire-Diploma means only a simple beginner-course (6 cords and 4 rhythm-patter). It is beginner-level I. It is a real basic-level for absolute bloody beginner. Made for one small booklet. Folk-diploma means not the whole folk-technical and not the whole "Folk-Giutar". There are just enough informations, do play easy folk-songs. It is beginner-level II. (6 more chords and variations of the basic-patter and a little picking). "Rock-diploma" is a avant-beginner-level. Bare-cords and rhythm (most used in rock('n'roll)) Not the "History of Rock" just a beginner-level IIIa, the ballades-diplom is (or better will be) a lessen for sus, add, 7, j7, picking, easy walking-bass. beginner-level IIIb. The level IV is the rock-ballades-diplom; means picking AND bare-cords, or bare-cords with sus, add, j7 etc. Every is prepared for the small booklet. After this 4 courses you can separate into the different genres like blues, folk, jazz, rock... (a pentatonic-blues-workshops is started, and a jazz-workshop is started): You can join in this structure ore take anything you need, and use it in the way you want. Maby I can translate something for you, and you will finish. Like the first example. (Where does it gone?) But if you need any help of some translation, ask me. Or some pictures, songs, midi, powertabs, rhythm or something like else. Please use my german user-page, because I don't look so much in the en.wikibooks.org. --mjchael 11:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guitar woods

I believe there should be some info on specific guitar constructions and materials, because these offer vastly different sounds for the guitar. Guitarists and potential luthiers would both appreciate the addition. --Alexnye 06:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Styles

I added a 'Styles' section to the main page. I thought the book needed one. I put them in alphabetical order. Feel free to add whatever other genres you think could use a page ( as if I needed to tell you that!), but I think it would be best if the categories were kept broad. Sameer Kale 18:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anatomy of a Guitar

Anatomy of a Guitar page does not load properly (as of 4/26/07).

[edit] Fantastic!!

Dear editors!! I'm really looking forward to read this book!!

Thanks! Geir Solerød, Norway

[edit] Images

In my opinion, this book seriously lacks images and schemes - how to grab guitar, play certain chords etc. Take a look at German book - they have many graphics. If you like graphics there, please move them to Commons. If you don't know how - no problem, I can help. You can also check some photos already being there on Guitar page and category. --Derbeth talk 20:01, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

One step further, find a bilingual german/english Wikipedian and a Wikipedian whose native language is the opposite of this Wikipedian (so a German who speaks English and a native English speaker, or vice versa; two bilinguals of opposing native languages works best) that will volunteer to do an exhaustive quality check. Read the whole of both books, discuss them, eliminate the weaknesses from both and combine their strengths, and make each a direct translation of the other. Doing this with two bilinguals will actually produce the best results. --Bluefoxicy (talk) 03:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Print version

Can someone make a print version too cuz i can't load the pdf. Icelandic Hurricane 22:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Ask and ye shal recieve, your printer friendly version is right here. --NickPenguin 05:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
tx!! Icelandic Hurricane 23:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Electric guitar mods

I recently started learning to play the guitar and wound up grabbing a large amount of equipment for cheap, including:

  • $150 Epiphone Les Paul Special 2
  • New push-pull pots (500k,500k to replace 300k,500k)
  • New pickups
  • Two capacitors (0.022uF, 0.047uF)
  • New tuning machines (locking)

I have a number of things I can play with now, such as:

  1. Cap mod: Pull tone pot to switch from 0.022uF to 0.047uF
  2. Split coil: Pull vol pot to switch from Humbucker to Single Coil
  3. Series mode: Pull vol pot to place the coils in series instead of parallel
  4. Phase switch: Pull vol pot to switch the phase on one pickup
  5. High protection: Add 560pF cap and 300k resistor in parallel across the hot leads of vol pot

Mod (1) uses the tone pot, and mod (5) stands on its own; mods (2), (3), and (4) use the Vol pot and I can only do one.

Mod (1) will allow a mode where the tone pot kills more of the highs, giving a darker sound when pulled.

Mod (2) will give a single-coil sound, but eliminate the noise removal.

Mod (3) will give a mode that produces a brighter sound.

Mod (4) may produce a unique, "nasal" sound; or it may just cancel the sound.

Mod (5) protects high frequencies. When turning up the volume, the higher frequencies sometimes do not increase in volume as fast as the lower frequencies (my pickups specifically cause this situation); the RC circuit here prevents this, so the volume control works more smoothly across all frequencies instead of leaving the highs behind.

After a lot of googling, I will probably go with mods (1), (4), and (5); yet I have not quite determined how mods (2), (3), and (4) will actually affect the instrument. A section of the Wikibook devoted to explaining the guitar's internal electronics and how they affect sound, along with possible modifications controlled by various switches, may prove interesting. Not so much of a list of possible projects, but more a list of more general theory like what phase switching does and how the impedance of multiple coils affects their interaction; what various capacitors do; what changing the vol and tone pots does (500k vol + 1M tone == brighter sound than 500k + 500k, where a 1M + 1M might just cause noise if the pickup won't handle the 1M vol pot...).

I also threw on some locking tuners and some locking strap holders. Not quite sure how this fits in with the above but it's fascinating. --Bluefoxicy (talk) 03:48, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to create a page about guitar modification, I'm sure other readers would be interested in reading/contributing their knowledge on the subject. --NickPenguin (talk) 02:21, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Guitar Tablature & Chords, Tabs

If you want you may put my side TAB Theke http://www.tabulaturen.buschhausen.eu/ into Guitar Tablature (Tabs) S.B. (talk) 19:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)S.B.

Just test:

  • TAB Theke A tab collection in 4 books: acoustic guitar, e-guitar, e-bass and polyphone tabs.

S.B. (talk) 20:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)S.B.

[edit] Orphaned page

G'day, Guitar/Different Types of of Guitars appears to have been orphaned from your book. Please see if you can reintegrate it somehow, or request deletion. Webaware talk 15:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, now merged and deleted. Webaware talk 13:27, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Asking for advice on pedals

I'm trying to decide which kind of pedals I want to buy and wonder what you guys think. I mostly play alternative, punk, pop-punk, soft rock, and other kinds of rock. I know that I want a Boss PH-3 Phase Shifter, a Boss DS-1 Distortion Pedal, and some kind of delay pedal. What else could help me in these genres, especially in pop-punk and punk? Saksjn (talk) 23:41, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] template CRD

I've created a template for guitar chords. Original for the German wikibooks. I've copied it to the English wikibooks, so you can use it for your projects.

It is easy to use:

Source code
text{{crd|Am7}}text text
becomes
text Am7 text text

[edit] Example

[edit] Rock my Soul

Verse 1
E Rock my soul in the bosom of Abraham, B7 Rock my soul in the bosom of Abraham,
E Rock my soul in the bosom of Abraham, B7 oh rock my E soul.
Verse 2
So E high, you can't get over it, so B7 low, you can't get under it,
so E wide, you can't get round of it, B7 oh rock my E soul.
more Examples

You can copy the songs simply for your wikibooks. Certainly these songs have no copyright. Maybe you will start a songbook for yourselves. (And I hope sometime in the future I can copy some of your songs.) much fun thereby and greeting from Germany --Mjchael (talk) 16:34, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] How can I play the B chord (Blues)?

I'm sorry, but I can absolutely not spread my fingers so that I could play the a string at the second and the d string at the sixth fret simultaneously (the the section about Blues). Does anyone have tips for me how I could manage it? Which fingers shall I use? The other chords, A and E, are no problem, but this one (B) is very tricky for me... --Jayk (talk) 19:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] I've done some work on the "barre" page

Hello. I've been replacing the tab/chord templates with images. Since this is a major change, please check it out and post a comment if you have any complaints. --Sluffs (talk) 10:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

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