Talk:False Friends of the Slavist/Russian

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Russian flag Главными языками этой страницы являются русский и английский.

The main languages of this page are Russian and English.

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Contents

[edit] Proofreading Center

Some things still have to be done by speakers of Russian. Please leave a note about what you are doing or have done in the following list of tasks.

[edit] Monolingual page

The monolingual page has to be proof-read by someone who knows Russian well; please correct the mistakes you find and make a list of your corrections here, so that other people can use your list to correct the bilingual pages. While doing this, look if someone else has already listed mistakes they spotted on this talk page.

[edit] Bilingual pages

The bilingual pages should be proof-read after the monolingual page is corrected, so that the mistakes spotted there can already be used. Please have a look at the talk pages of the bilingual pages, too, to see if someone else has already made comments about mistakes there.

[edit] Maps

Someone should look through the semasiological maps of those words where there have been mistakes in the monolingual page and adapt them.

[edit] Translations needed

  • The redirection sentence to this page was not translated by a native speaker (but by me, Daniel Bunčić). If you have a better translation than "По вопросам русского языка, пожалуйста, пользуйтесь страницей обсуждения по русскому языку", please change it accordingly.
  • The bilingual pages should have headings in the respective languages, in separate lines (i.e. with an empty line between them in the edit window) below the main heading. So we need the following Russian translations:
  • "<center>'''Russian-Belarusian false friends'''</center>" above {{FFStart}} (under the Belarusian heading, if it exists) at the head of the Russian-Belarusian page.
  • "<center>'''Russian-Kashubian false friends'''</center>" above {{FFStart}} (under the Kashubian heading, if it exists) at the head of the Russian-Kashubian page.
  • "<center>'''Russian-Upper Sorbian false friends'''</center>" above {{FFStart}} (under the Upper Sorbian heading, if it exists) at the head of the Russian-Upper Sorbian page.
  • "<center>'''Russian-Czech false friends'''</center>" above {{FFStart}} (under the Czech heading, if it exists) at the head of the Russian-Czech page.
  • "<center>'''Russian-Slovak false friends'''</center>" above {{FFStart}} (under the Slovak heading, if it exists) at the head of the Russian-Slovak page.
  • "<center>'''Russian-Slovenian false friends'''</center>" above {{FFStart}} (under the Slovenian heading, if it exists) at the head of the Russian-Slovenian page.
  • "<center>'''Russian-Macedonian false friends'''</center>" above {{FFStart}} (under the Macedonian heading, if it exists) at the head of the Russian-Macedonian page.
I did the translation a few minutes ago. If there are any questions, or the need for a justification/source, please alert me to an e-mail: regretful, sorry and unlucky I do not have as much time as I would want to break pages on WP, and I might not be around.:)
— kkm@pobox.com 04:10, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] вещь (transferred from the main talk page)

Separate out the meanings. The adjective вещ (+ij) should exist in Rssian, and should mean the same thing as in all the other languages.

--VKokielov --69.244.123.182 18:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

> The adjective вещ (+ij) should exist in R[u]ssian
Bingo! It might. For one, I am a well-educated native speaker of Russian, and the phrase «он вещ и многославен¹» does not invoke a rejection in me. Unfortunately indeed, the word seems not to have been attested in Russian (Unfortunately because I like the sound of it — having been reduced, it acquires certain onomatopoeic character in it :) ). Should an argument ensue, I can write someone to check dictionaries not on my hand, but I am certain that the word has never popped up, save for as an occasional lapsus lingua. The adjective «вещий» is very archaic, and must have been unproductive by the early 1700s, roughly the beginning of a major literary explosion that has largely predicated the modern Russian language.
Zaliznyak (Зализняк) is perhaps the most authoritative modern orthographic dictionary; too bad I have lost the tome in one of my moves, and its database form that I have does not include paradigm tables, but still yields an advantage of being searchable. The word «вещий» is marked with 2 п 4a (adj., whereby the 2 and 4a refer to a particular paradigm, sigh...), but other adjectives posessing exactly the same mark-up are «будущий», «гончий», «кажущийся» and «купчий», deriving reduced forms of which we should better leave out as an exercise to the persnickety reader (in upside-down type: they are most certainly wanting :) ). There is a large number of Russian adjectives² that do not assume reduced forms. Scanning the dictionary, I got an impression that, of the words with the same paradigm, I do not scorn at illegal reduced forms of archaic adjectives, but those of the active, productive names I strongly perceive as incorrect. Take this with a huge grain of salt, for being just what it is — a momentary intuition — and I recall no scientifically valid information on this effect.
—————————————————————————————
¹ The word «многославен», to that point, also does not exist in modern Russian, but, IIRC, was attested in OCS, which means that still good chances are to find it in Bulgarian — hapless as I am, I do not speak it. :)
² This also applies to participles.
— kkm@pobox.com 02:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Штука v. щука

I have just removed the following pair:

R. штука		 Bg. къс, экземпляр ‘piece’
Bg. щука R. щука ‘pike’
map

Could please someone speaking Bulgarian natively confirm that this is not a pair of “false friends?” It is so much out of place in Russian — I cannot perceive the words as similar, however hard I honestly try to. :) Both words have meanings in Russian, so they are hardly confused. Prosodic differences are prominent, too: in Russian, we do 2 full stops in «штука», but only 1 in «щука». Does not «шт» produce a full-stop in Bulgarian? Is «штука» a meaningful word?

If I am wrong (that is, if the words really solicit a Bulgarian speaker to mix'em up) — please let me apologize in advance, and — may explicitly marking such “asymmetrical” pairs be a good idea? Without such an explanation, I think I won't be the last one to remove them… :)

— kkm@pobox.com 03:24, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Oops! I was wrong, see the writing on «штука».

Reverting myself... But is it really possible to mark the asymmetrical pairs — maybe with color, a note, etc? First of all, I understand that doing so would require editing templates, something I have never done before; second of all, I am also not sure to have come up with the best way to mark them, and it will likely break (aesthetically, not technically) the general style and third of all, I think it is better to observe an explicit consent for such a change, no? At least, I have demonstrated a few minutes ago that it is easy to miss a thing, and twice as easier if it is an important and quite a sizable thing! :)

— kkm@pobox.com 04:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Of course the problem here is that the Bulgarian word щука is pronounced exactly the same as the Russian word штука, namely, ['ʃtukɐ].
As to the 'asymmetrical' false-friend pair: I have written the Russian word щука, which is a written cognate to Bulgarian щука just as Russian штука is a spoken cognate, in bold type now:
R. штука		 Bg. къс, экземпляр ‘piece’
Bg. щука R. щука ‘pike’
map
Maybe this is clearer? --Daniel Bunčić 09:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Живот

Живот meaning life is archaic in Russian according to [1] and my own knowledge of the language. Maybe this should be made clear. -Iopq 12:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Nothing archaic about it!

Живот meaning life - устарелое 194.154.71.58 17:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Живот meaning life, in Russian, comes from Church Slavonic (linking to Old Bulgarian) and does not exist in the vernacular. --Youri (talk) 10:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Żywot (Живот) is archaic, but in Polish only.

[edit] Люди

In Macedonian луди means insane. How do I add a new entry? There are a lot of wiki stuff in each table cell and some of it changes from cell to cell. -Iopq 12:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I see you have already started to edit. See False Friends of the Slavist/Editing help for further details. Probably the easiest pages to work on are the bilingual pages and the maps. The monolingual pages are really a bit complicated. --Daniel Bunčić 21:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I'll check it out... for now I need to use some online dictionaries for the word for family... -Iopq 07:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Лето

It is actually лет in the plural of years. So wouldn't it better to list it as a separate word (separate from the actual word лето which means summer)? So then it wouldn't be as confusing to read the tables because the tables give the impression that лето means years. -Iopq 17:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

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