Cookbook talk:Spaghetti alla carbonara

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Isnt this wierd!!

I have had this debate with a friend for 3 years and we are both Italian.....However, my friend believes that Amatriciana sauce has cream in it????. Basically the traditional Carbonara does not have garlic or cream EEW! and yes the quantities of the ingredients would vary from restaurants in Italy and New York... It is important for the recipe to stay as traditional as possible otherwise we may as well call it some thing else. I had an Italian restaurant in London which was very popular, cooking only traditional recipies from the mother land. Each to there own..I do not agree that because you are of Italian decent living in another country that you would not know more than an Italian from Italy...quite an obsurd thought. In fact my friend was born in Italy and knows squat about traditionality in fact she boasts that Amatriciana has cream in it and that Carbonara has 1 egg for 4 people very strange sticky lump. I was born in the UK and pride myself on my Italian heritage, I find it insulting that individuals would not consider us "true Italians".. Live on the International Italian!!


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[edit] Not the Italian recipe

The Italian recipe does not include any garlic or onion. Italians are not as keen on these two ingredients as the stereotype would have you believe. Ask any Italian—that is an Italian raised in Italy, not an "Italian". 83.67.217.254 09:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Just because there are ingredients here that wouldn't be used in Italy, doesn't mean that the ingredient is wrong.
What do you mean by "wrong ingredient"? It's the recipe that is wrong. It's completely different from the original, so we need a different name. I propose we call this recipe "Spaghetti con pezzi di maiale e tanto aglio e cipolla per incontrare il gusto burino degli anglosassoni a cui piacciono tanto le cose che sembrano italiane perche' fanno figo, ma che purtroppo non capiscono una mazza di gastronomia, poveretti". Just don't call it "Spaghetti alla Carbonara" please.
Show off! Anyway, I'm the one who removed the old recipe a few months ago and started this one. The garlic was added by someone else - I just removed it because we all agree it doesn't belong. As for the onion, Rocco's in NYC uses onions, so I put that in. Lastly, as someone who lived in Rome for 2 years, it strikes me as funny that so many Italian-Americans believe that there is ONE way to cook certain meals: "That's not the way it's done!" If you have Spaghetti alla Carbonara in 10 different restaurants in Rome you'll have 10 different versions!
...none of which with onion, I think you'll find. Rocco's in NYC needs to sell his rubbish to New Yorkers, so no surprises there. I agree with you that Italian-Americans have no authority to talk about Italian (note, no "American" here) cuisine. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.67.217.254 (talk • contribs) 2007-02-09T09:58:19.

[edit] Definitely NOT the Italian Recipe

Spaghetti alla Carbonara does not contain onions or garlic. I don't think I've ever heard of these two ingredients being added. Anyway, I pulled a few references (haven't properly annotated these) from my library, that have the correct recipe in them, which should definitely sway the argument:

Larousse Gastronomique - One of THE international cooking encyclopedias, every chef has one!

Leith's Cookery Bible - A very well respected English cook book and used in cooking schools.

Yum by Terry Durack - One of the great modern restaurant critics and food writers (Now based in London and, incidentally, married to Jill Dupleix).

I would like to modify this page next weekend?

--Tanzburg 02:41, 28 January 2006 (UTC)User: Tanzburg

Further the Pancetta recommended here is also a substitute. Guanciale, cured pork jaw fat, is the original fat used in the recipe and is far superior to Pancetta or, god forbid, bacon. I also cocur with the above comment that onion and or garlic are not used in traditional carbonara. If you like it by all means add it but it isn't in the original.

The dish is a simple mix of rendered Gualciale, Pasta, Parmigiana Reggiano, eggs and coursley ground pepper nothing more.

  • Interesting that you should chose a French and an English cookbook to justify the perfect recipe for this dish Peterkirchem (talk) 16:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A few more tidbits

I agree! I was born and raised in Rome and the recipe certainly does not call for garlic. That would be sacrilegious. Onions I have seen, and I have even used them myself once or twice. Only, is about 1/8 of a small onion in order to make a small "soffritto". It should be so little onion as to be impossible to find in the final product.

As for the name, there is another possible provenance: "La Carboneria" was a secrect sect in the 800s (I hope I am right. Please correct me on that -- a long time ago in any case), whose members were called Carbonari. Also, a coal miner in Italian is a "Minatore", a "Carbonaro" is the coal delivery man. Maybe someone should correct the wiki about that. This one I am positive.

Interestingly, I prefer substituting American bacon for the Guanciale instead of using pancetta. The original recipe does not use pancetta at all, while bacon actually has a history of being used for Carbonara in Rome, by Italians. After the liberation of Italy by the allies in WW2, guanciale was hard to come by, but the allies food rations had plenty of Bacon and eggs to make carbonara with. Some even venture to say that carbonara in its present form was not around before 1944. I have got to find that out.


[edit] The Point of view of a Roman

I am Roman (sorry for my english), so maybe I can contribute to bring some light about this recipe.

First, in central Italy there is no Coal mine, but there was produced Charcoal, and the Carbonari, were men which went on the mountains and made charcoal out of wood. So, this is the origin of the name, which has nothing to do with the Carboneria, which, as written above, was a sect active in the nineteen century.

And now, something about the recipe.

Onion and/or Garlic are definitely NOT part of Carbonara;

The original recipe of Carbonara uses (incredible but true, read below the reason) Pancetta (bacon), NOT Guanciale;

Carbonara was unknown in Rome before WWII. I am positive about that, since I asked my mother (born in 1927), and she told me that the dish became popular after the war. Someone says that it has been invented during the Landing in Anzio and Nettuno, and this explains the reason why here Bacon is used, and not Guanciale (as in the Matriciana). Bacon has been brought to Rome by the american soldiers who conquered the City in June 1944.

Moreover, there is no trace of Carbonara in the classical Book La Cucina Romana, written by Ada Boni and published in 1927. So, I definitely think that Carbonara is an Italo-American invention occurred somewhere around Rome in 1944.

Finally, one last word about the method about finding the truth about a recipe. It is true that many cooks interpret every recipe differently. These are known by us as Variazioni sul tema. But it is also true that each recipe has a classical interpretation. How is it possible to find it? The only possibility, at least for someone who does not live where the dish was born, or, in this case, has not a roman mother or grandmother, is to look on the Classics. And, concerning the modern Roman cooking, the Bible is for sure the book of Ada Boni (unfortunately with the notable exception of Carbonara). Alessandro57 14:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] charburners and miners

are charburners different than miners? eh? Kellen 19:47, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Who knows? Anyway, this is my favorite Pasta. It is very Roman - which makes it unusual for Americans, who are used to a red tomato sauce from Southern Italy or a pesto sauce from Genoa. Central Italian cuisine is great, and usually a bit spicy. 67.80.139.189 ( talk | email | contribs )

[edit] new version

Note that 67.80.139.189 replaced the recipe on October 15, 2005. I think the new one is more usable, but I'm not really sure. The new one has:

  • amount of pepper specified
  • amount of salt unspecified
  • spaghetti is exactly 1 package, not 1.32 packages (much, much better)
  • was 4 eggs, now 4 egg yolks (eeew, gross)
  • water removed... uhhh... crunchy! (should be about 4 quarts I think)
  • lots of onions and parsely added (yuck)
  • per-serving, double the bacon (good idea)
  • almost double the cheese, and of a different type

See if old recipe if you like. Perhaps it should get a page to itself. AlbertCahalan 00:01, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Hey, I'm the guy who revised the recipe. I just wanted to respond to the previous writer about my changes.

  • The amount of salt is really up to the individual's taste (and health if you're trying to keep your blood pressure down). I prefer a lot of salt in the water.
  • The use of egg yolks only improves the flavor greatly - trust me!
  • The water is drained, but you add some to the egg mixture and some again at the end (about 1/4 of a cup each time).
  • The onions add some flavor to the meat, but I guess you could go without them.
  • The parsely is just an extra flavor too, so I guess you could cut that out.
  • The type of cheese should be parmiggiano-reggiano, but that's twice as expensive as regular parmiggiano, and the flavor is almost the same.

67.80.139.189 ( talk | email | contribs )

You can use four tilde ("~") characters in a row to have the system automatically add your name and date. It won't otherwise. (I added it for you above) Normally we don't manually number things; it would be way too tedious to maintain. Sometimes people indent using a colon (":") to indicate a response, two colons for responses to that, and so on. AlbertCahalan 20:54, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Using more simple words or adding synonyms so all people can understand

I got this message from Kellen: "(revert "synonym: tool" ... knowing what a "utensil" is is a pretty fundamental thing. If somebody wants to look it up, they can go to "Cookbook:Utensil)

All right , but why not make the word then point to "Cookbook:Utensil"? I'll do it, and I guess there is no more problems associated with this new action of mine. Logictheo 11:36, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] More grist to the Carbonara

WOW !! Some discussion here. Has anyone seen MY recipe for Carbonara ?? It's here -

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Carbonara_pasta_sauce

Has anyone tried adding a dash of Strega to the Carbonara mixture just before adding the pasta ? Mmmm. Delicious

By the way the REAL origin of Carbonara is that it was invented after the Anzio landings Italy in 1944 by the English Army Colonel and renowned gourmet, Jack Carbon, during the latter part of the Occupation of Italy by the Germans, as a diplomatic gesture to their Italians hosts, when the English wanted eggs and bacon for breakfast. It certainly wasn't invented by an American.... they wouldn't have the imagination.

[edit] reciepsummary

There is something wrong with the recipesummery template. The article is placed (because of that template) in the "recipes with images" catagory but there is no image. I dont know enough about that template to fix it.


[edit] The Point of view of a Roman makes a good point

There is no such thing as a definitive recipe for this, and most other, pasta sauces. They have evolved over the years as they have become internationalised. The Italians of all people are wonderfully inventive, and patient in their acceptance of other people's interpretation of an Italian recipe. So let's not all get thrapped about this... add onions, or don't....add garlic, or don't... you know, no one will ever know what you did... and, for certain, no one will ever care. Peterkirchem (talk)

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